Mines Malingerer
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Re: Sif Muna revamp
FR: Sif removes anti-training.
Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.
Mines Malingerer
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dpeg wrote:Kalma: That's a very defensive stance. Sif can stay an interesting god for unspoiled players despite changes!
I think I'll suggest book lending (as opposed to gifting) for a minor 0.15 god change; it should start earlier, and the main parameter is delay for getting another lending option. This will make Sif spell access completely different from Vehumet's and Kikubaaqudgha's (I am absolutely fine with the Death God giving permanent books), will allow players to experiment as before (access to amnesia unchanged) but force more decisions in the long run (need to give book back in order to get a new one). I think that's simple and reasonable enough, and will en passent improve the flavour without much noise. Arbitrarily flashy things could be done at high end piety (visiting a physical library etc.) but that's not my concern right now.
Could happen that the resulting thought process when managing Sif books (together with standard books) is not too exciting, but the change should be small enough. The current thought process isn't really deep either.
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Siegurt wrote:dpeg wrote:Kalma: That's a very defensive stance. Sif can stay an interesting god for unspoiled players despite changes!
I think I'll suggest book lending (as opposed to gifting) for a minor 0.15 god change; it should start earlier, and the main parameter is delay for getting another lending option. This will make Sif spell access completely different from Vehumet's and Kikubaaqudgha's (I am absolutely fine with the Death God giving permanent books), will allow players to experiment as before (access to amnesia unchanged) but force more decisions in the long run (need to give book back in order to get a new one). I think that's simple and reasonable enough, and will en passent improve the flavour without much noise. Arbitrarily flashy things could be done at high end piety (visiting a physical library etc.) but that's not my concern right now.
Could happen that the resulting thought process when managing Sif books (together with standard books) is not too exciting, but the change should be small enough. The current thought process isn't really deep either.
What happens when I destroy a book Sif lent me from his library?
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duvessa wrote:That sounds like it would make Sif gifts more similar to Vehumet gifts, not less - one of the defining features of current Vehumet gifts, after all, is that you only have access to one at a time.
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dpeg wrote:I think that's simple and reasonable enough, and will en passent improve the flavour without much noise.
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XuaXua wrote:Scroll creation? Write a memorized spell to a scroll for piety cost.
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jworm76 wrote:I think that piety gain (for any god) should require some kind of effort or sacrifice somewhere, otherwise it just happens automatically and there's no strategic element to it.
On one extreme, what if you could sacrifice one point of max health (similar to how DD scarifies a max MP point for a charge) to get a piety star immediately?
Another possibility is to gain piety by casting spells. For example, casting a spell where you have less than 10% failure rate may give very little piety, but taking a risk to cast a 30-50% failure rate (for example) could give you a significant boost of piety. [...]Maybe you could also gain piety by going around the dungeon with 0 encumbrance (wearing only robes for example), thus leaving you free to maximize your magic potential.
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Leafsnail wrote:More spell slots would give you more tactical choices in any given situation.
Mines Malingerer
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dpeg wrote:Robotron: We could but I say that free amnesia is a lot more interesting. Either way, you can experiment with spells, and quickly adapt. With amnesia, however, there are more choices. Choices are good.
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Robotron wrote:dpeg: your notion is that by cutting down the number of spell choices the game would be more interesting. My opinion is that doing the oppositie and offering more choices to the player the game would be more interesting.
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Patashu wrote:XuaXua wrote:Scroll creation? Write a memorized spell to a scroll for piety cost.
it's spending piety, something regeneratable, for something whos use can be delayed as long as you like.
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Almacia wrote:Here's a suggestion, going back to the 'Sif worshippers often don't have the skills to support switching all their spells out' thing. What if Sif Muna let you use Spellcasting as a school, along with the actual school(s) of a spell, to cast? For instance, Fire Storm would be Fire/Conjurations/Spellcasting, and Discord would be Hexes/Spellcasting. I know Spellcasting is already included in the spell power formula but it's not as significant as the actual schools; this would make it that significant. (More, actually, since it wouldn't remove the Spellcasting/2 from the formula.)
This allows you to cover your poor spell skills with Spellcasting without making them completely irrelevant, since they're still included in the average; you just get to include what is probably your highest skill. And it's not like anyone worshipping Sif shouldn't work at having a very high Spellcasting anyway.
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cjo wrote:Here's my stab at an idea that already got shot down: an extra spell. Yes, spell limits are a good thing; nobody should be able to learn every spell they want. But I think ONE low-to-mid level spell would still leave players with the need to think about their choices, and it would fit Sif Muna's theme. Here's how I would implement it: When you reach 6* piety, Sif Muna offers to bless your knowledge of a spell. This spell must be of level 1-3, and you must have the spell memorized. When you pray at her altar, a menu of suitable spells is called up, and you choose one. The spell is then colored blue in your spell list, and you are refunded the spell levels you used to learn it. If you drop below 6* piety, the spell is greyed out and you can not cast it until you return to 6*.
I would love one extra spell. I don't think it would break the game, but I would be thrilled to have it. I think it's thematic and reasonably simple.
Crypt Cleanser
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ohmi wrote:Perhaps + 1 MP for every book you are actually carrying or standing on?
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ohmi wrote:Perhaps + 1 MP for every book you are actually carrying or standing on?
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