crate wrote:Divinations removal didn't have much to do with power level; surely no one actually considered e.g. "detect secret doors" too powerful.
The problem with divinations (and Alter Self!) is they were non-combat spells.
The underlying issue with most divinations, alter self and selective amnesia was that they were spells with no tactical element. You could ignore the mana cost and cast them whenever you wanted. It's true that something being a non-combat spell causes this problem to happen, but it can also arise in combat spells too. Old swiftness suffers from a similar issue, for instance.
I'd say the haste spell is in a kindof similar position. You can't cast it constantly, but the benefits it brings are so great that there are very few battle situations where it isn't worth having it active. I don't think it's overpowered, considering that "invest a bunch of XP in charms in order to make a fairly plentiful resource infinite" isn't a no-brainer, but I do think that it doesn't really make sense as a spell considering that spells are meant to be used tactically rather than being basically perma-buffs.
I don't think the removal of the haste spell (while keeping both consumables) would really make a 15 rune win much harder. You'd have to either contend that the haste spell is a no-brainer (in which case it should be removed) or that it's crucial to some subset of characters (who?) if you wanted to claim that removing the haste spell would break the post-endgame.
dpeg wrote:4. archeo: note that is makes a difference what the source of the buffs are. Spells are unlimited which makes them very unsuited for some effects (see Divination removal). Consumables are better because they require more decisions (i.e. better risk judgement). That does not mean haste as a spell is hopeless because there's a strategic cost associated to it.
I think the two bolded sentences are at odds with each other. If the strategic cost of XP investment is enough to make an effect suited to being a spell then divinations (and Alter Self and Selective Amnesia) should have been able to stay, just at higher levels (and possibly with a success level threshold). I don't think this is the case - for something to be a good spell it needs to have some kind of tactical cost too, and Haste's tactical cost is virtually nothing because you get back the time you spend casting it many times over.
e: I've realized I might've misinterpreted what you mean by "strategic". If I have then you can disregard most of this response other than the part about the tactical cost being almost zero.