YAVP: GrFi of TSO 3-rune


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Mines Malingerer

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Joined: Monday, 20th December 2010, 06:21

Post Tuesday, 17th December 2013, 15:17

YAVP: GrFi of TSO 3-rune

How many acronyms can we incorporate into one subject? Whee!

Anyway, this is my very first win after years of playing. Yes, it was with a gargoyle, so let's go ahead and get the "Gr is broken, doesn't count", "Gr are for newbs", "Come back when you win with a real race" posts out of the way early.

So, yeah! Gargoyle Fighter of the Shining One, 3 runes (Snake, Shoals, Vaults). Mastered shields, didn't learn or cast a single spell. Found a nice eveningstar and branded it with electrocution, so that was fun. Enchanted up some gold dragon armour to +8. Only had a few "oh crap" moments, angels helped me through most tough spots, and I got to nuke a few crowds with Cleansing Flame spam which was a joy to see work. Used tomahawks and javelins for ranged attacks - with only 10 throwing, they did really well. Sack of Spiders now and then to get out of a bind/deal with crowds of tough critters. By far my favorite magic item.

I was terrified to enter Zot, and was surprised to see it wasn't difficult at all. When I saw my first Orb of Fire I got real nervous, after all the talk you hear about them, but they didnt seem too dangerous and I took them out without difficulty. I'm guessing this is all because people may want to get a 3-rune and having Zot harder than all the "extra" branches would be silly. Still, kind of disappointed in the wimpiness of Orb Guardians.

I decided to enter the Vestibule for the first time and had to resist the temptation to venture into the various branches of Hell. The desire to finally get a win under my belt overcame my curiosity (as well as the compulsion being a Shining Oneite gave me to go destroy all those unholy abominations).

Yay! Character file dump attached.
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MyOtheHedgeFox

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 17th December 2013, 15:42

Re: YAVP: GrFi of TSO 3-rune

Congratulations!

Yes, Orbs of Fire are not that bad when you have rMut, AC 63 and rF++.
It's nice to see a character for whom using +15 large shield "Bullseye" {EV-5} is a good idea.

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Mines Malingerer

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Joined: Monday, 20th December 2010, 06:21

Post Tuesday, 17th December 2013, 15:56

Re: YAVP: GrFi of TSO 3-rune

Oh yeah, I loved that shield! Combined with Divine Shield my SH was around 93, I think. It was love.

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 17th December 2013, 16:50

Re: YAVP: GrFi of TSO 3-rune

I don't think using Bullseye on that Gr was a good idea (compared to a branded shield or something). Congrats, though.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 17th December 2013, 17:29

Re: YAVP: GrFi of TSO 3-rune

Sar wrote:I don't think using Bullseye on that Gr was a good idea (compared to a branded shield or something). Congrats, though.

  Code:
rFire  + + .   
rCold  + + .     
rNeg   + + +     
rPois  +         
rElec  +
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Mines Malingerer

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Joined: Monday, 20th December 2010, 06:21

Post Tuesday, 17th December 2013, 17:42

Re: YAVP: GrFi of TSO 3-rune

Sar wrote:I don't think using Bullseye on that Gr was a good idea (compared to a branded shield or something). Congrats, though.


What's included in that "or something?" My only other option was a +1 regular shield of reflection, but you know how those high numbers can tempt you (or maybe you don't!). I swapped to the reflector when I saw an upcoming yaktaur pack or occasional conjurers, with enjoyable results, but I still preferred not getting hit over the chance to reflect. From what I understand, reflection doesn't work against fireballs, so as I approached the Orbs of Fire of such fearsome reputation, I opted for as much SH chance as possible over reflection. Would a reflected firebolt or fireball back at an Orb of Fire even hurt it anyway? Same with all the dragons in Zot - I assumed a reflection of their innate element wouldn't hurt them much.

What would you, the kids at home, have chosen? Was choosing a Large shield with the obscene +15 on top of the "Large" shield rating worse than choosing a Regular shield with a mild +1 and Reflection? I admittedly don't have a head for minmaxing odds and diminishing returns and all that jazz, to say nothing of my lack of understanding regarding the minute details of Crawl combat calculations. All I knew was that nothing was getting past my shieldiest of shieldy shieldosity!

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 17th December 2013, 17:49

Re: YAVP: GrFi of TSO 3-rune

Shield does not block Fireball/Bolt of Fire.
See http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Shields for details

Edit. Main disadvantage of Large Shield is necessity to train Shields skill to 25. But I think it was ok for the character though probably it could be better to train some fighting before training Shields really high.

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Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 17th December 2013, 17:59

Re: YAVP: GrFi of TSO 3-rune

Well, I would probably raise Dex and get unhorrible EV. Even if I went one-handers for some reason. So my AC/EV/SH would be something like 50-ish/20-30-ish/40-ish (no TSO buff). Depending on items, of course. I think really low EV can be pretty bad, though I did win some characters with really low EV.

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Mines Malingerer

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Joined: Monday, 20th December 2010, 06:21

Post Tuesday, 17th December 2013, 19:09

Re: YAVP: GrFi of TSO 3-rune

Thanks for all the useful info, everyone! I knew some spells weren't blockable, but I wouldn't have guessed all the bolts weren't. That's really weird - anyone know why? Game balance? I just figured if you could evade it, you could block it, with the exception of explosive stuff (if it hits your shield I can see how you'd get hit by the blast anyway) and a few more less-direct attacks (airstrike).

Well, thankfully I had so much armor and resistance (and hitpoints) that getting hit by the occasional unblockable spell wasn't overly noticeable. Anyway, I'm a geek for thematic play over optimized play, so I still say "Heck yes" to a completley shield-and-armor-based character who doesn't bother with pirhouetting around and dodging attacks. I got the orb and my first win with it, and without any significant trouble (easier than I expected), so here's to saying you can do it effectively without worrying about EV, even if it isn't the Ultimate Ideally Optimized Build.

Next goal: Hybridized Merfolk Ice Elementalist of Sif Muna.

P.S. Forgot to mention, I totally went to Tomb and wiped out that sphnix pack that smote my last character to dust (started a thread about it elsewhere). That felt good!

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 17th December 2013, 19:38

Re: YAVP: GrFi of TSO 3-rune

All bolt spells pierce multiple enemies in a row, would make little sense for them to be blockable.
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Mines Malingerer

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Joined: Monday, 20th December 2010, 06:21

Post Tuesday, 17th December 2013, 19:42

Re: YAVP: GrFi of TSO 3-rune

Aha! Shows how much I pay attention to magic. I didn't realize "bolt" was the Crawl version of Angband's "Beam". Good to know!

(They should still totally be blockable though, and stop the beam at the point they're blocked!)

Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Tuesday, 17th December 2013, 19:54

Re: YAVP: GrFi of TSO 3-rune

What is the lowest ever EV on a winning character? Is this close? :D

Cocytus Succeeder

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Joined: Saturday, 2nd February 2013, 09:52

Post Tuesday, 17th December 2013, 20:06

Re: YAVP: GrFi of TSO 3-rune

Oh, and gratz on the first win! And with TSO, wow. A rare combination.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Tuesday, 17th December 2013, 21:07

Re: YAVP: GrFi of TSO 3-rune

Magipi wrote:What is the lowest ever EV on a winning character? Is this close? :D
Numerous characters have won with 0 EV after the bots started tracking it, and I'm sure there are older wins with less.
This should help you see how easy it is to get low EV.

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