@ VJ: That's a specious objection. You don't use the exec axe that early *because* having mindelay is more important
It's called an example. What is special about hand axe mindelay? Why not train until exec axe mindelay if "doing more damage" is the most important thing? What if my hand axe gets corroded, and I find an exec axe of speed? What if I find a good war axe or broad axe? Do i train "nothing but axes" until they hit mindelay? What about a ring of invisibility? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
It's the same as using magic:
1--Raise your main killdudes skill until you killdudes effectively
2--Raise other stuff
Obsessing over mindelay is pointless and silly.
The difference between a 12 skill trident and a 14 skill trident (just to prove to bobross that his example is silly) is like an average of a point or two of damage. Do you seriously think that's SOOOOOOOOOO important that you cannot possibly risk being a level or two lower? And if it is that important, do you seriously think being a level or two higher is a big deal?
Additionally, knowing the exact speed of your attacks is only actually useful if you know the speed of everything else, including monsters, and in that case you're already staring intently at the in-game indicator, so you don't need a display elsewhere.
If this thread is seriously how people think about mindelay, I'm not surprised some people want to get rid of it.
getting Axes to 18ish by Lair
Unless you are an orc or minotaur, 18 axes at the start of Lair is a mistake. If you are an orc or minotaur, it is probably still a mistake, but in that case you are an easy mode race and you are wearing plate armour, so skill training is dramatically less important.
the main argument of people who do not want that information displayed is "you can guess it already / you should know it" not "I enjoy not being able to know whet the best choice for skill training or gear selection is". Because if having that information displayed isn't detrimental to your playstyle, then why are you opposing it?
My objection is that that information IS detrimental. Anything which distracts the player from more important concerns is detrimental. If you're worrying about whether your current delay is 0.75 or 0.70, then you're not worrying about what will happen when a spiny frog appears around that corner or any other of the hundreds of other things more likely to kill you than being slightly off mindelay.
If you force those numbers into my view, and I know they aren't important, then I have to expend effort to ignore them, which is bad for the same reason.
As for attack speed, it's the same.
no it's fucking not did you even read my last post
miscasting is hugely, oceanically different from a slight action speed difference. On top of that, "slow, average, fast" are reasonable, useful,
descriptive words. Whereas the word "good" is meaningless garbage. Your comparison is bad and you should feel bad for making it.
Crawl's goal isn't to give all the numbers to the player, but it shouldn't provide information in an unclear and confusing manner.
pretty sure crawl's goal is to provide information in an unclear and confusing manner
Actually it is rather similar to the Yu-Gi-Oh! card game. Ridiculously convoluted and impractical ruleset that is a direct result of years and years of random tweaks and changes without apparent concern for the massive cluster**** being created. But actually pretty simple and intuitive once you learn to read between the nonsense.