CIP: TrMo, some key strategy decisions to make

Tuesday, 4th June 2013, 17:12 by HenryFlower

I've never had a successful monk, but this guy is doing reasonably well. Found an IDA earlyish, and faute de meiux, spent a ? of EA on it. Now have another ? of EA, so I have a real decision to make about whether to make this my endgame armor, or stash the scroll until I find something better.

So the key decisions:

1) Endgame armor: I have a steam dragon skin I could enchant, could wait until I find MDA or FDA, or something else. So far, the IDA is working given the other source of resistance I have (the ring of fire on my claw).
2) I'm also sitting on a scroll of acquirement, so another choice. Armor? First scroll got me the hat I'm wearing.
3) I'm making the strategic decision to hold UC at 20 and invest in fighting and armor, and eventually dodging. Smart? Dumb? This goes along with my next choice:
4) I held off on picking a god until Lair, hoping for Jiyva, but got a vault where the branch stairs are guarded by Oklob plants, so :-(

. If I go with Oka now, I'll get the boost to UC, fighting armor and dodging. I could go with Ash, and play up the hybrid aspects (no UC bonus, but more spell bonii). Or something else.

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.13-a0-1367-gbfbad6d (tiles) character file. Claws the Brawler (Troll Monk) Turns: 19320, Time: 00:54:10 HP 118/118 AC 19 Str 22 XL: 13 Next: 78% MP 4/4 EV 7 Int 10 God: Gold 975 SH 0 Dex 12 Spells: 1 memorised, 10 levels left Res.Fire : . . . See Invis. : . - Unarmed Res.Cold : + . . Warding : . c - +1 ice dragon armour Life Prot.: . . . Conserve : . (shield restricted) Res.Poison: . Res.Corr. : . J - +1 wizard hat Res.Elec. : . Clarity : . T - +0 cloak Sust.Abil.: . . Spirit.Shd : . (gloves unavailable) Res.Mut. : . Stasis : . (boots unavailable) Res.Rott. : . Flight : . (no amulet) Gourmand : + d - ring of fire a - ring of sustenance @: somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy A: unfitting armour, claws 3, fast metabolism 3, gourmand, regeneration 2, saprovore 2, tough skin 2, AC +3 a: no special abilities You are on level 11 of the Dungeon. You are completely stuffed. You have visited 5 branches of the dungeon, and seen 22 of its levels. You have also visited: Labyrinth. You have collected 1031 gold pieces. You have spent 56 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons h - an uncursed blowgun Missiles n - 39 poisoned needles p - 2 javelins (quivered) X - 3 needles of sleeping Armour c - a +1 ice dragon armour (worn) J - a +1 wizard hat (worn) T - a +0 cloak (worn) Magical devices g - a wand of random effects {zapped: 1} j - a wand of slowing {zapped: 4} l - a wand of paralysis q - a wand of magic darts {zapped: 3} s - a wand of magic darts {zapped: 3} t - a wand of digging u - a wand of paralysis (16) v - a wand of slowing y - a wand of frost {zapped: 1} E - a wand of magic darts {zapped: 3} I - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 3} K - a wand of slowing S - a wand of slowing Y - a wand of fireball {zapped: 1} Comestibles b - 10 meat rations f - 3 pears i - 3 chokos k - 7 bread rations m - 4 honeycombs z - 2 sausages O - 2 royal jellies Scrolls w - 2 scrolls of identify x - 8 scrolls of teleportation C - a scroll of enchant weapon I F - a scroll of fear G - a scroll of enchant armour L - 7 scrolls of remove curse M - 3 scrolls of amnesia P - 4 scrolls of recharging Q - 2 scrolls of fog V - 2 scrolls of magic mapping Jewellery a - a ring of sustenance (left claw) d - a ring of fire (right claw) e - a +3 ring of evasion U - a ring of fire W - a +5 ring of intelligence Z - the ring of the Countless Wonders {Str+4 Acc+2 SInv} (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts) [ring of strength] It affects your strength (+4). It affects your accuracy (+2). It enhances your eyesight. Potions o - 2 potions of brilliance r - 2 potions of flight B - 2 potions of agility D - 3 potions of restore abilities N - 6 potions of curing R - 2 potions of might Books A - the Guide on the Birds (You found it in a labyrinth) Spells Type Level *Swiftness Charms/Air 2 Airstrike Air 4 Poisonous Cloud Conjuration/Poison/Air 6 H - Frederick's Handbook of Igneous Combat Magic (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon) Spells Type Level Flame Tongue Conjuration/Fire 1 Throw Flame Conjuration/Fire 2 Force Lance Conjuration 2 Sticky Flame Conjuration/Fire 4 Bolt of Fire Conjuration/Fire 6 Skills: - Level 6.1 Fighting + Level 6.4 Armour - Level 2.4 Dodging - Level 1.1 Stealth - Level 20.0 Unarmed Combat - Level 8.0 Charms You have 10 spell levels left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Swiftness Chrm/Air #......... 24% 2 ###.... Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (11/27) Temple (1/1) D:6 Orc (1/4) D:7 Lair (8/8) D:10 Shoals (1/5) Lair:4 Spider (0/5) Lair:6 Slime (0/6) Lair:6 Altars: Ashenzari Makhleb Okawaru Trog Vehumet Zin the Shining One Shops: D:4: =/+ Annotations Lair:6 exclusion: 2 oklob plants Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You are too large for most types of armour. You have claws for hands. Your metabolism is lightning-fast. You like to eat raw meat. You heal very quickly. You can eat rotten meat. You are covered in fur (AC +1). You have very tough skin (AC +2). You are partially covered in yellow scales (AC +2). Message History Your pack is full. You see here a scroll of enchant armour. You can't carry that many items. Eat which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit) You continue eating. You finish eating. Mmmm... Yummy apricot. G - a scroll of enchant armour You start resting. HP restored. Found a stone staircase leading down. Found a robe. P - 4 scrolls of recharging (gained 1) Your pack is full. You see here a scroll of acquirement. Read which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit) Identify which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit) As you read the scroll of identify, it crumbles to dust. W - a +5 ring of intelligence Char dumped to '/Users/arienmalec/Library/Application Support/Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup/morgue/Claws.txt'. Save game and exit? #.# #.# #.# ##.## #...# # #...# .# # ####...###.### # #............## # #.@............. # #.........##.## ######## ###>...#### ##.....# #.....##[.. ##.###.##### #........... ...# #.....##### ##.....##... ...###.........###............ ##.....###.###..............# ######## #.# #..##.......... #.# #..###.....### ####.# #..###.....##.. #(%..# #...>.......... There are no monsters in sight! Vanquished Creatures A minotaur (Lab) Harold (Lair:3) 3 catoblepae (Lair:8) 16 death yaks 2 sea snakes (Lair:4) 3 hill giants A griffon (Lair:8) The ghost of Demoiferhous the Prestidigitator, an experienced DjAr of Nemelex Xobeh (D:5) 4 black mambas A griffon skeleton (D:11) 13 elephants 6 spiny frogs Grinder (D:3) 7 komodo dragons A polar bear (Lair:8) A queen bee (D:10) An air elemental (D:8) 3 basilisks A wandering mushroom (Lair:8) A wraith (D:10) 4 blink frogs (Lair:1) 20 yaks A fire elemental (D:8) 2 hungry ghosts Grum (D:8) A steam dragon (Lair:5) A fire drake (Lair:4) 8 war dogs 6 hippogriffs A necrophage (D:9) 2 ice beasts (D:9) An ogre (D:9) A sky beast (D:9) 2 phantoms 5 orc warriors A yak skeleton (D:8) 3 boring beetles A wolf (Lair:5) Sigmund (D:2) 2 big kobolds 9 crocodiles 10 giant slugs 5 centaurs A two-headed ogre zombie (D:11) 8 water moccasins 5 agate snails A centaur skeleton (D:7) An earth elemental (D:7) 13 giant frogs A two-headed ogre skeleton (D:10) 17 killer bees (D:10) 3 goliath beetles A sky beast zombie (D:6) 4 crimson imps 7 orc priests 8 hounds 5 scorpions 9 iguanas 10 porcupines 9 orc wizards 4 worker ants 5 orange rats (Lair:7) Jessica (D:2) 5 jellies 19 sheep 9 adders 4 giant centipedes 47 green rats An adder skeleton (D:6) 4 giant mites 6 worms A giant eyeball (D:9) 2 bat skeletons (D:4) 10 giant geckos An ooze (D:1) 31 orcs 2 ball pythons 25 bats 6 giant cockroaches 12 goblins 12 hobgoblins 27 jackals 13 quokkas A giant gecko skeleton (D:5) 11 giant newts A hobgoblin skeleton (D:5) 32 kobolds A quokka skeleton (D:6) A quokka zombie (D:5) 31 rats 584 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (others) A wyvern (Lair:6) A water elemental (D:8) A green rat (Lair:5) A quokka (Lair:6) A giant gecko (Lair:6) A giant newt (D:2) A rat (D:10) 5 plants 12 creatures vanquished. Grand Total: 596 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | Claws, the Troll Monk, began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 20/20 MP: 0/0 138 | D:1 | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One. 419 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 28/28 MP: 0/0 867 | D:2 | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat 867 | D:2 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 35/35 MP: 1/1 1002 | D:2 | Noticed Sigmund 1015 | D:2 | Killed Sigmund 1015 | D:2 | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat 1015 | D:2 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 44/44 MP: 1/1 1133 | D:2 | Noticed Jessica 1141 | D:2 | Killed Jessica 1209 | D:2 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 50/50 MP: 1/1 1754 | D:3 | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog. 1982 | D:3 | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet. 2144 | D:3 | Noticed Grinder 2157 | D:3 | Killed Grinder 2157 | D:3 | Reached skill level 8 in Unarmed Combat 2157 | D:3 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 24/58 MP: 2/2 2908 | D:4 | Found Ragh's Magical Wand Emporium. 3006 | D:4 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 21/66 MP: 2/2 3125 | D:4 | Found Weukheoz's Jewellery Shop. 3136 | D:4 | Bought a cursed -5 ring of dexterity for 28 gold pieces 3136 | D:4 | Bought an uncursed amulet of inaccuracy for 28 gold pieces 3344 | D:4 | Found Nouzxits' Book Shoppe. 3487 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 3494 | D:5 | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat 3803 | D:5 | Noticed Demoiferhous' ghost (experienced DjAr) 3837 | D:5 | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari. 4208 | D:6 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 4498 | D:5 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 39/74 MP: 2/2 4606 | D:5 | Killed Demoiferhous' ghost 4606 | D:5 | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat 4665 | D:6 | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari. 5081 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 5136 | D:7 | Reached skill level 11 in Unarmed Combat 5421 | D:7 | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines. 5556 | D:7 | Identified Frederick's Handbook of Igneous Combat Magic 5664 | D:7 | Noticed an angel 5665 | D:7 | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin. 5680 | D:7 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 80/80 MP: 3/3 5784 | Orc:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines 6148 | D:8 | Noticed Grum 6161 | D:8 | Reached skill level 12 in Unarmed Combat 6169 | D:8 | Killed Grum 6224 | D:8 | Identified a scroll of acquirement 6741 | D:8 | Found an iron altar of Okawaru. 6874 | D:9 | Reached skill level 13 in Unarmed Combat 7408 | D:9 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 77/89 MP: 3/3 7596 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon 7601 | D:10 | Noticed a hill giant 7611 | D:10 | Killed a hill giant 7611 | D:10 | Reached skill level 14 in Unarmed Combat 7818 | D:10 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 8022 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 8053 | Lair:1 | Found a labyrinth entrance. 8065 | Lab | Entered a labyrinth 8277 | Lab | Noticed a minotaur 8286 | Lab | Killed a minotaur 8286 | Lab | Reached skill level 15 in Unarmed Combat 8351 | Lab | Identified the Guide on the Birds 8464 | Lair:1 | Gained mutation: You are partially covered in yellow scales (AC +2). [potion of beneficial mutation] 8483 | Lair:1 | Learned a level 2 spell: Swiftness 8923 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 16 in Unarmed Combat 9065 | Lair:1 | Reached XP level 11. HP: 77/96 MP: 3/3 10147 | Lair:3 | Noticed Harold 10328 | Lair:3 | Killed Harold 10482 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 17 in Unarmed Combat 10980 | Lair:4 | Found a staircase to the Shoals. 11854 | Shoals:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Shoals 11854 | Shoals:1 | Noticed a sea snake 11854 | Shoals:1 | Noticed a sea snake 11874 | Lair:4 | Killed a sea snake 11884 | Lair:4 | Killed a sea snake 12097 | Lair:5 | Reached skill level 18 in Unarmed Combat 12334 | Lair:5 | Noticed a death yak 12337 | Lair:5 | Noticed a death yak 12339 | Lair:5 | Noticed a death yak 12345 | Lair:5 | Noticed a death yak 12346 | Lair:5 | Noticed a death yak 12358 | Lair:5 | Killed a death yak 12364 | Lair:5 | Killed a death yak 12719 | Lair:5 | Reached XP level 12. HP: 96/104 MP: 4/4 12904 | Lair:5 | Killed a death yak 12904 | Lair:5 | Reached skill level 19 in Unarmed Combat 12915 | Lair:5 | Killed a death yak 12920 | Lair:5 | Killed a death yak 13272 | Lair:6 | Noticed an eight-headed hydra 13574 | Lair:6 | Found a hole to the Spider Nest. 13944 | Lair:5 | Reached skill level 20 in Unarmed Combat 14049 | Lair:5 | Reached skill level 1 in Armour 14050 | Lair:5 | Noticed a five-headed hydra 15537 | Lair:7 | Reached skill level 5 in Armour 15727 | Lair:8 | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts 15974 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 1 in Charms 16121 | Lair:8 | Noticed a catoblepas 16134 | Lair:8 | Killed a catoblepas 16145 | Lair:8 | Noticed a death yak 16145 | Lair:8 | Noticed a death yak 16160 | Lair:8 | Killed a death yak 16166 | Lair:8 | Killed a death yak 16260 | Lair:8 | Noticed a death yak 16260 | Lair:8 | Noticed a catoblepas 16260 | Lair:8 | Noticed a death yak 16287 | Lair:8 | Killed a death yak 16287 | Lair:8 | Reached XP level 13. HP: 75/110 MP: 4/4 16461 | Lair:8 | Killed a death yak 16461 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 5 in Charms 16702 | Lair:8 | Killed a catoblepas 16755 | Lair:8 | Noticed a death yak 16756 | Lair:8 | Noticed a death yak 16756 | Lair:8 | Noticed a death yak 16757 | Lair:8 | Noticed a death yak 16758 | Lair:8 | Noticed a death yak 16759 | Lair:8 | Noticed a death yak 16762 | Lair:8 | Killed a death yak 16763 | Lair:8 | Noticed a death yak 16819 | Lair:8 | Killed a death yak 16945 | Lair:7 | Killed a death yak 17046 | Lair:8 | Killed a death yak 17130 | Lair:8 | Killed a death yak 17161 | Lair:7 | Killed a death yak 17240 | Lair:8 | Killed a death yak 17484 | Lair:8 | Noticed a catoblepas 17510 | Lair:8 | Killed a catoblepas 17589 | Lair:8 | Got a crude steel ring 17818 | Lair:6 | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits. 18555 | D:10 | Identified the ring of the Countless Wonders {Str+4 Acc+2 SInv} (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts) 18647 | D:10 | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Unarmed | 82 | 184 | 423 | 880 | 378 || 1947 Fire: Blowgun | | | | 5 | || 5 Cast: Swiftness | | | | | 4 || 4 Evoke: Wand | | | 2 | 21 | || 23 Use: Scroll | 1 | 7 | 12 | 20 | 4 || 44 Potion | | | 3 | 11 | 2 || 16

Tuesday, 4th June 2013, 17:36 by rchandra

I'd enchant the IDA - Troll HP means walking around with a negative resistance is OK in most places (and you can swap in rF).
Acquire wand, probably.
I like UC 22 since it passes a breakpoint (21.6) and is also the heroism point. But you could get more defenses first, your offense is probably not lacking.
Ashenzari would be nice, particularly if a shield exists.

Tuesday, 4th June 2013, 17:53 by HenryFlower

rchandra wrote:I'd enchant the IDA - Troll HP means walking around with a negative resistance is OK in most places (and you can swap in rF).
Acquire wand, probably.
I like UC 22 since it passes a breakpoint (21.6) and is also the heroism point. But you could get more defenses first, your offense is probably not lacking.
Ashenzari would be nice, particularly if a shield exists.

IDA: done. wand: healing! Off to Ash it up...

Tuesday, 4th June 2013, 18:03 by Siegurt

Unless you're planning on diverting into spells *now* stick with the IDA long term, it's better overall, and the additional time needed to make spells castable in IDA vs MDA isn't very large in the long run (If you're going to go that route at all)

I'd use the acquirement now, and I'd use it on armour, I mean I guess you could hold out until you were in need of a healing/hasting wand and hadn't found one yet, but had found most of the common wands, but that's a long time to sit on something that could very well keep you alive until that point in the game.

By all means, get some fighting. Armour's good but less important than fighting. Dodge would also not be out of place.

I'd consider using a shield, they do slightly slow down your UC and remove your off-hand attack but the added defense they provide for a troll is excellent, the nastier your primary attack, the less significant the loss from your off-hand becomes in comparison. Not an "immediately" or a "definitely do this" thing, but something to consider.

I wouldn't take Ash as his most useful abilities don't correspond with what you'll be doing most of the time, unless you plan on ditching UC for spellcasting (which I don't really recommend) Scrying is great for sneaking up on things, but sneaky and troll don't mix well, which turns a fantastic ability into merely somewhat useful.. If you want to play up hybrid angle you could go with sif, he'd get you books and channeling and reduce the miscast effects which would help for those "I just need to spam this spell with a relatively high failure rate until it sticks" kind of situations, of course piety gain would be very slow if you're not investing skills points in casting spells. TSO would let you summon angels and bless a ranged weapon if you go that route, divine shield is nice if you decide not to use a physical shield. Makhelb would let you summon demons and give you a decent ranged attack and heal you, and of course Jyvia would turn you into a well-fed, UC monster eventually. Of course I find his abilities most useful for spellcasters myself, but he's pretty generally useful, If you're going to use him I'd wait until you had a full end-game set of eq though.

Personally I'd probably go with TSO eventually, probably take Makhelb in the short term (at least until it's hard to get piety for him, which is right about when TSO's peity is easiest to get)

Wednesday, 5th June 2013, 09:37 by Zargon

Well, I got a TrHu to 15 runes with an IDA. IDA is great - it's almost as good as PDA for AC and GDR, with the same EV. It looks like you've managed to cancel the fire vulnerability, which is a must.

For pre-extended, my strategy was:
Kit: IDA, large shield, javs+large rocks+hand axe of returning for throwing
God: Oka
Skills: Worked to get 22 UC (27 with Heroism), 10 shields (15 with Heroism to cancel large shield malus), 7 throwing, 22 armour, 15 dodging, 22 fighting, 8 stealth (suprisingly useful), 8 T+D. Enough magic for a few low (up to level 2) support spells - butterflies, swiftness, apportation etc.
Attributes: Pumped Dex, then Int for the last 3 pumps as I realised I could take the endgame. Edit: As you're a monk not a hunter you should probably push int a bit more than dex if you want to take the endgame.

For extended:
Kit: Stuck with IDA and stashed large shield. Had a randart rF+ ring of sustenance with MR, which helped.
God: Kiku (totally rocks - food and minions on demand for little piety loss, makes tomb a joke, stat loss reduction in hells, torment resistance, etc.)
Skills: Used the extended exp budget to get: 27 UC, fighting and armour, 20 dodging, 15 stealth, 15 throwing, 12 T+D. Support magic: 18 charms+air+spellcasting, 20 translocations+necromancy (for haste, CB, BR, DM and good Kiku corpses). With those and ~300HP, I was completely unstoppable.

Good luck!

Wednesday, 5th June 2013, 13:29 by HenryFlower

And, we're dead.

A bit of key mashing, rather than hitting 'o' took me a few steps too far into a centaur warrior and cyclops. Did fog + teleport, should have done fog + swiftness. Alas.

That was a fun run, will try it again.

Good advice, al1.

CIP: TrMo, some key strategy decisions to make

CIP: TrMo, some key strategy decisions to make

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