Zot Zealot
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Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.
Zot Zealot
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Temple Termagant
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Temple Termagant
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Barkeep
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Sedrahl wrote:Meanwhile, making Self-Petrification an ability basically eliminates the possibility of creativity on the player's part. There is no reason they couldn't leave it to the player to realize on their own that they could take advantage of Gargoyle's slow Petrification period and improved Petrification stats by casting it on themselves. Turning it into an ability takes any thought out of the process, and brazenly passes up on the chance to bring an interesting new use to an existing spell. Use Gargoyles to add a new twist to existing content, don't add an ability and pretend spells like Petrification and Statue Form don't exist.
Crypt Cleanser
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Sedrahl wrote:Self-Petrification (the ability) needs to be scrapped because there is no good way to make it something players will want to use. Nerfing Gargoyles so that they have to use it out of necessity is a bad idea, because that will immediately drop them into "challenge race" territory and nobody will play them, and I think buffing it until there's incentive to use it frequently will inevitably end with it being "Statue Form, but better".
Temple Termagant
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njvack wrote:I shouldn't need to be all clever to figure out that a species's main distinguishing feature is a thing.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 | 25-27 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed | 12 | 4 | 59 | 240 | 820 | 1083 | 1300 | 698 | 3470 || 7686
Throw: Javelin | | | | 6 | 7 | 12 | | 2 | 3 || 30
Cast: Sandblast | 37 | 94 | 116 | 31 | | | | | || 278
Stone Arrow | | 13 | 79 | 335 | 321 | 46 | 9 | 1 | 2 || 806
Lee's Rapid Decon | | 1 | 10 | 39 | 57 | 38 | 5 | 16 | 28 || 194
Passwall | | | | 3 | | | | | || 3
Sublimation of Bl | | | | 17 | 43 | | | 6 | 13 || 79
Iron Shot | | | | 9 | 79 | 80 | 31 | 24 | 87 || 310
Stoneskin | | | | 2 | 4 | 17 | 44 | 38 | 123 || 228
Apportation | | | | 2 | | | | | || 2
Statue Form | | | | | | 12 | 59 | 37 | 100 || 208
Regeneration | | | | | | | 44 | 56 | 223 || 323
Ozocubu's Armour | | | | | | | 1 | | || 1
Flight | | | | | | | | 4 | 13 || 17
Abjuration | | | | | | | | | 15 || 15
Dig | | | | | | | | | 9 || 9
Mass Abjuration | | | | | | | | | 9 || 9
Invok: Slouch | | | | 1 | 13 | 14 | 1 | 9 | 23 || 61
Step From Time | | | | | 3 | | | | 1 || 4
Temporal Distorti | | | | | 1 | | 4 | 7 | 8 || 20
Abil: End Transformatio | | | | | | | | 1 | 3 || 4
Evoke: Wand | | | 2 | 6 | 17 | 1 | 11 | 3 | 12 || 52
Rod | | | | 2 | | | | | 1 || 3
Miscellaneous | | | | | 1 | 1 | | | 2 || 4
Use: Scroll | | 2 | 6 | 15 | 19 | 12 | 19 | 4 | 32 || 109
Potion | | | 1 | 4 | 9 | 4 | | 4 | 9 || 31
Stab: Distracted | | | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 5 | | 5 || 15
Sleeping | | | | | 6 | 7 | 15 | 2 | 14 || 44
Petrified | | | | | 1 | | | | || 1
Confused | | | | | | | 1 | | || 1
Fleeing | | | | | | | | | 3 || 3
Dungeon Master
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Sedrahl wrote:The problem is that Self Petrify simply will not work as the main distinguishing feature.
Dungeon Master
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tasonir wrote:Being able to drop out of combat while you're in the middle of an open area would probably look silly, although invis does work about the same way for stupid monsters
Ziggurat Zagger
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Crypt Cleanser
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tasonir wrote:That could certainly work, although it might be difficult to break sight entirely for melee characters who are up close. Would be very handy for EE's who still have range and can break sight easily. If you ever get to controlled blink it would combo very strongly, perhaps too easily. It would definitely reward ranged/mobile characters with blink, though.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Dungeon Master
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tasonir wrote:imho add a regeneration effect to petrify. Probably just a standard 1hp/sec regen, same as the spell, takes effect as soon as you start petrifying and lasts until the turn you turn back to flesh.
Halls Hopper
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brendan wrote:tasonir wrote:imho add a regeneration effect to petrify. Probably just a standard 1hp/sec regen, same as the spell, takes effect as soon as you start petrifying and lasts until the turn you turn back to flesh.
I added a regeneration effect.
I'm ambivalent about turning too many knobs at once. There's a danger of giving them a 'win game' button. If this racial shtick doesn't work, I'm totally open to replacing it (here's looking at you, great-players, for suggestions).
Temple Termagant
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Crypt Cleanser
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Barkeep
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crate wrote:I think the best thing I heard was someone on irc saying "a defensive boost followed by a defensive vulnerability isn't interesting, while an offensive boost followed by defensive vulnerability is" or something like that. Obviously that sounds a lot like berserk but berserk is an interesting and good mechanic.
Swamp Slogger
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Ziggurat Zagger
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njvack wrote:crate wrote:I think the best thing I heard was someone on irc saying "a defensive boost followed by a defensive vulnerability isn't interesting, while an offensive boost followed by defensive vulnerability is" or something like that. Obviously that sounds a lot like berserk but berserk is an interesting and good mechanic.
I haven't heard complaints about Death's Door, which is rather like a defensive boost followed by vulnerability...
Dungeon Master
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Crypt Cleanser
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brendan wrote:What if we converted self-petrify into a toggle?
Fleshy mode would be mostly human-like.
Stone mode could, for example, get DR (at the cost of stat damage), resist bumps, and slow movement.
Zot Zealot
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Barkeep
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crate wrote:in practice ddoor is actually invulnerability followed by more invulnerability
Temple Termagant
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Zot Zealot
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Zot Zealot
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Abyss Ambulator
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Davion Fuxa wrote:...we might as well just bump up Sludge Elves Staves skill and improve Conjurations and Unarmed Combat for Deep Dwarves. It doesn't seem like the Gargoyles aptitudes are filling enough of a niche and being immune to trampling and petrification doesn't sound like enough of a distinguishing factor for their inclusion.
Crypt Cleanser
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brendan wrote:Sludge Elves were removed from the game.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Swamp Slogger
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XuaXua wrote:Elementally, I think Gargoyles need greater skill differences than Deep Dwarfs; possilbly bump Ice to +2, or even embrace Ice and rework the species concept.
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