The Tavern

Untill yesterday everything was fine, I was playing online with my beloved DgWn as usual, but today I can't connect to the lobby at crawl.develz!
The problem might be on my part, but since I can load every other webpage just fine, I think it's worth asking here if anyone else is experiencing this, and if anyone knows a solution.
Any ideas?

Same here, I haven't been able to connect for ~20 hours now.

Unreachable.

That was yesterday, at 8:22 GMT:

<+Napkin> CDO's data-center has a heat problem. I'm shutting down the heavy services for a while, discs are quite hot already.

Hum seriously any news?

I'm becoming to show the dramatics signals of drug drop off here.

galehar wrote:That was yesterday, at 8:22 GMT:

<+Napkin> CDO's data-center has a heat problem. I'm shutting down the heavy services for a while, discs are quite hot already.

Aha, now I see! Thanks for the info.
Glad I asked afterall, hope it'll be back up soon

Is there anything I can do to help 'ol webtiles?

I love this game. I would be happy to kick a little cash in to support hosting.

Kheldar wrote:I'm becoming to show the dramatics signals of drug drop off here.

Look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal

F10.3 alcohol withdrawal syndrome
F11.3 opioids, including methadone withdrawal
.
.
F17.3 nicotine withdrawal

What about adding F18.3 webtiles withdrawal?

(Citation needed.)

Is webtiles on CDO down permanently? Tempreatures in Germany have been back to normal for several days, so that cannot be the problem anymore(?).

When will CDO webtiles run again?

I haven't been able to connect for a few days. Is there a problem still?

That was yesterday evening (in europe):

<+Napkin> heat problem is kinda gone
<+Napkin> just haven't had time to re-enable it yet
<+Napkin> crawl access, that is

So it should be back soon.

So, here are the (bad) news for webtiles on CDO:

<@dpeg> Napkin: Any idea when CDO webtiles will be up again?
<+Napkin> maybe not? i have no time to update it :-$
<+Napkin> aren't there enough webtiles servers already now?
<@dpeg> Napkin: not in Europe The real thing is taht we would like to
make an announcement on the CDO homepage and we don't really know
what to write.
<@dpeg> Napkin: You want to cut webtiles from CDO?
< alefury> that would suck
<+Napkin> well, it's been a year and i haven't managed to script a proper
update process
< alefury> maybe steal amethyst's?
* dpeg has hopes that the new servers will make maintaining this
easier...
<+Napkin> i'm also switching to a new server
<@dpeg> Napkin: I have no personal opinion -- what are tiles anyway?
Should we say that "bis auf Weiteres, only console auf CDO"?
<+Napkin> but also, edlothiol changed a lot
<@dpeg> !seen edlothiol
< Wenzell> I last saw edlothiol at Mon Aug 27 11:42:17 2012 UTC (2h 53m
58s ago) quitting with message Remote host closed the
connection.
<+Napkin> i'm also getting a lot of memory paging fault from the webtile
processes, lots of zombies, lots of unclean files
<+Napkin> and the box is horribly slow when serving webtiles
<@dpeg> Our Napkin is burned out
<+Napkin> hehe
<@dpeg> !beer Napkin
<+Napkin> just busy and not motivated to plan&hack

Sounds like it's not getting back anytime soon.

Thank you for the answer.

For my part, Webtiles and online scoring board were the only thing that kept me coming back to Dcss. The server not showing up apparently for us Europeans make my decision to fall back to old Style Angband more and more to the point.

Kheldar wrote:For my part, Webtiles and online scoring board were the only thing that kept me coming back to Dcss. The server not showing up apparently for us Europeans make my decision to fall back to old Style Angband more and more to the point.

Same here.I used to have really good achievements-best kobold,halfling,tengu,ghoul,draconian scores and stalker,venom mage,hunter. Since no1 cant even see them,im not keen getting back to crawl unless they'll transfer all scores from old server.I feel like beeing cheated but i might be only one so plz ignore my opinion.

Kheldar wrote:Thank you for the answer.

For my part, Webtiles and online scoring board were the only thing that kept me coming back to Dcss. The server not showing up apparently for us Europeans make my decision to fall back to old Style Angband more and more to the point.

Another sad webtiles user here too

I used to play webtiles almost every day (instead of listening to lectures

) - but without online scoring board and other server being too laggy from old Europe, I'm forced to pause DCSS and find another roguelike, hoping webtiles on cds will come back

nago wrote: Another sad webtiles user here too

And here too.

nago wrote:I used to play webtiles almost every day

Me too.

Even if not updated regularly (or for this upcoming tournament?) could we at least get .10 back up on CDO? Are all the existing characters dead?

Will CSZO combine with the old CAO/CDO scoring board? That player page was really satisfying for tracking overall progress and comparing it to the rest of the DCSS world.

Is there anyway that I (or players in general) can help get CDO and CAO live again?

I think scoring is shared with all servers, or will be very soon. This is obviously very important for the tournament.

The existing games argument convinced him, webtiles is back! (for now)

All praise Napkin!
Finally I can wake up my sleeping DmTm and let him win (or die ignominiously, like the 100 before).
Anyway I'm a bit worried about the "for now". Are you planning to shut-down definitely the server, or are you thinking to update it along the others?

we don't know yet. What is certain is that webtiles puts a heavy load on CDO and Napkin isn't really motivated anymore to run it. So, it would be good to start looking for another hosting in europe. Maybe it will involve asking for donations to finance the hosting.

Is there any way an experienced Unix programmer can help with the obviously suboptimal networking code of webtiles? That is probably the top reason why it's so hard on the machine's resources. Hey, fifty people playing and sending maybe five packets with keystrokes per second each should really not paralyze _any_ modern server like they do now - that's really peanuts.

Who said it was network issues that were taxing the server?

Me.

A quick experiment shows that _local_ Webtiles consumes 18% of one cpu core on my slow box if I just keep "5" pressed near the stairs. That's 30 keystrokes per second, and I guess it needs about ten online players to create that load. So my estimation is that if fifty people play at the same time over the net that should not hog more than one core on a decent box with a good amount of Ram.

But if you think it's normal to have games that are dead for 500+ hours in the list using up resorces...

Firstly, that doesn't answer my question at all. Second, your experiment ignores the overhead of running multiple instances at the same time. Thirdly, your last sentence was a total straw man and I have no idea where it came from.

Yeah, whatever. You probably have better information and take that as a reason to turn down an offer for help and to share experience in an unsuitable way. *Shrug*; your problem; consider the offer as taken back.

galehar wrote:we don't know yet. What is certain is that webtiles puts a heavy load on CDO and Napkin isn't really motivated anymore to run it. So, it would be good to start looking for another hosting in europe. Maybe it will involve asking for donations to finance the hosting.

Thanks for the informations. Personally I wouldn't mind to periodically donate for hosting, as I play a lot DCSS on webtiles

wolloloo: I personally doubt that the problems on CDO have to do with the webtiles networking code, but you're welcome to take a look at the source and propose changes or other actions.
The dead games don't take any resources, though; they're annoying, but not the problem.

edlothiol wrote:wolloloo: I personally doubt that the problems on CDO have to do with the webtiles networking code, but you're welcome to take a look at the source and propose changes or other actions.

Where can I find

a) instructions on setting up a Webtiles server locally,
b) the source code that is specific to webtiles,
c) any existing data on the performance issue (has crawl and/or webtiles been profiled lately)?

And furthemore:

d) Can I take a look at 0.10, or should I rather examine the latest code in the git repo?
e) Are performance measurements from the CDO server available somewhere, or could I ask the admin to fetch them for me?

The dead games don't take any resources, though; they're annoying, but not the problem.

The dead games are a clue that the networking code might not have been written with stability or performance in mind - but it's really _only_ a clue. Of course nothing can be proven or fixed by just looking at the webtiles interface.

You'll always want to do development on the latest available code. Important bug fixes can be backported if necessary.

Much of the source code specific to webtiles is surrounded by "#ifdef USE_TILE_WEB" (for reference, see tileweb.cc).

There's only a 'thanks' button and no 'thanks Napkin' button. Well, thanks at Napkin for restarting webtiles on CDO.

Imo it doesn't matter too much if it's 0.10 or 0.11. Just webtiles!

And I still enjoy playing with demonspawns - next XL, next event.

wolloloo wrote:Where can I find

a) instructions on setting up a Webtiles server locally,
b) the source code that is specific to webtiles,

The server code is in webserver/ in the crawl source code. There's a README file about setting it up. The biggest part of the Webtiles-specific Crawl code is in tileweb.cc.

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