Race Selection Screen

[jejorda2]

I really like how the background selection screen is divided into categories. It makes it much easier to find what I want to play in the list. The categories are well-chosen and every background falls neatly into a category.

But the races are just listed in a somewhat random order. It isn't even alphabetical. Maybe it's the order they were thought of?

Here's a possible replacement. I'm not sure my categories are any good or that every race is in the right category, but I think some kind of grouping would be an improvement:

  Code:

Generalists   Armour Restricted      Niche Hybrids
a - Human         i - Ogre            r - Merfolk
b - High Elf      j - Naga            s - Halfling
c - Hill Orc      k - Centaur         t - Sludge Elf
d - Kobold        l – Octopode        u – Deep Dwarf
e - Vampire       m - Kenku   
                  n - Draconian      Melee Specialists
Magic Whizzes     o - Felid           v - Minotaur
f – Deep Elf                          w - Troll
g - Spriggan   Diety Restricted       x - Mountain Dwarf
h – Mummy         p - Demigod         Y – Ghoul
                  q - Demonspawn   


[dpeg]

The typical other proposal for grouping species is along the lines: Undead, Humanoids, Hybrids (half beast, half human), Animal (felid, octopode). Not saying that's better, or anything.

[mumra]

  Code:

               Diety Restricted
                  p - Demigod
                  q - Demonspawn


What ... Demigod and Demonspawn have food restrictions now?

In all seriousness, this was already suggested, in the very thread where I originally proposed the backgrounds categories: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=847. Seems so long ago!

Discussion about the species menu ended up splitting off into a separate topic: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=915&p=9911

It kind of fizzled out but there seemed to be an opinion (which on reflection I mostly agree with) that it wasn't as necessary or meaningful for the species menu, they're all very different and you can't group things together anything like as nicely. Still, the OP's suggestion gives gameplay-relevant groupings, but maybe it's too mechanics-focused - I mean, the defining features of Ogre/Nage/Centaur/Octopode aren't simply that they're armour restricted.

[jejorda2]

The typical other proposal for grouping species is along the lines: Undead, Humanoids, Hybrids (half beast, half human), Animal (felid, octopode). Not saying that's better, or anything.

That's closer to being deterministic, so you don't look for something in the wrong category, which is a clear advantage. It doesn't help you pick which race to play much at all, though.

Another idea would be to group by how many backgrounds are recommended for each class, as a rough way of sorting easy to hard.

I'd like to see something to make it easier to find one in the list, but I'm not convinced my proposed grouping is any good.

the defining features of Ogre/Nage/Centaur/Octopode aren't simply that they're armour restricted

No, but their defining features are what they get in exchange for giving up armour slots. Except maybe Ogres.. Maybe they should have been in the Generalists.

I think it's a testament to the success of Crawl's design that it is difficult to put the races into categories because many of them are different in wildly different ways. But I still want to try.

[galehar]

We don't want to convey the message that each species has a single defining playstyle. I doubt there's any grouping that can make more sense than the one dpeg has proposed.

[ryak]

I also think dpeg's proposal is pretty much the only sensible way to categorize the races. Honestly, even though it makes the most sense, its not even that useful of a categorization, so it might be worth leaving them alone rather than changing them just to have it categorized.

[dpeg]

It's not my proposal, I just reported about it!

Seriously, if we want to make the starting screens less overwhelming for new players (a noble goal, I say), the best uses unlockables, in my opinion. This is controversial, although I offered an extremely mild version: You can set an option that unlocks everything right away, and there is a button in the starting screen to do that.

[absolutego]

there are already recommended classes for every race. why filter by race? there are a few hard races (ogres, notably, because you don't expect it) and some tricky to play (the undead, deep dwarves, those with many restricted slots), but nothing to warrant unlockables.

if you don't want to overwhelm new players, give them a list of recommended builds. like hints mode, but much more extensive, so you don't exhaust the options in a couple of days, and with a tagline to explain what you'll get and how to play them (religion, equipment, magic or no magic, restricted slots). there's room in the screen for it. i'd go for an option like # or ! but on top of the screen, clearly visible, that directs you to a second screen like so:

a - Minotaur Berserker
A melee fighter who favours heavy armour and a big axe, and worships Trog, the god of violence. Wreak havoc and sacrifice corpses and you will be granted powerful weapons and allies. Trog loathes spellcasters and treasures their death beyond all else.

(i'm beyond rubbish at flavour, but you get the idea.)

if you want to run wild with it substitute this screen for the main screen if the morgue is (near-)empty, with an option to restore current behaviour.

[galehar]

Seriously, if we want to make the starting screens less overwhelming for new players

Well, the OP's goal was simply to make it easier to find what you're looking for. For that, simple categories would help indeed.

[bobross419]

Seriously, if we want to make the starting screens less overwhelming for new players

Well, the OP's goal was simply to make it easier to find what you're looking for. For that, simple categories would help indeed.

Alphabetizing the list would work well too and could probably be done in less than a minute.

Also... Am I the only person that keeps seeing this topic as "Rage Selection Screen"?

[Night2o1]

I don't see why the species need to be categorized in any way.. maybe in the most broad sense of living vs undead. Even then, there is nothing constant between all of the undead (while ghouls and mummies have the typically expected innate resistance to cold, vampires don't and just work totally differently..). I don't see the benefit here.. maybe alphabetizing the list would give it a bit more sense though.

Something that could be beneficial is a screen that pops up after you select a species. Say you select Ogre. A screen would pop up with a brief flavor description of ogres, a summary of their hp/mana/attribute/magic resistance (ie "Magic Resistance: Average magic resistance", or for DE "Magic Resistance: Very resistant to magical effects") gain, and their aptitudes. Then if you wanted to play an ogre you'd just press enter. I know the aptitude information is available already (%, +, +, +, interpret annoying table) but this would be more convenient and user friendly. As it is, I often have to alt tab to the wiki and search to get this information. It is tedious.

[Blade]

The races actually have a pretty logical organization already. Human to Merfolk are regular humanoids, Halfling to Spriggan are small humanoids, Naga to Draconian are monstrous races, Demigods and Demonspawns are divine/demonic, Mummies to Vampires are undead, Felid and Octopode are special cases.

It might make sense to have titles for the sections somewhere along those lines, but I think the current organization makes much more sense than alphabetical.