Playing online with Client software

[Euph0ria]

I have read the "How to play online" guide, and I've played from my web browser through the Webtiles link. However the offline tiles client is different from the webtiles play. It is missing the dungeon map, and the inventory slots, for example. Is there any way to use a tiles client to connect to an online server so a person can play online using their tiles client? If not, I think that would be an excellent idea, to be able to use a crawl-tiles client to connect to an online server, thus adding the extra display benefits of the tiles client while reducing bandwidth by translating what would normally be ASCII/TTY display to the installed tiles client.
If it is possible to use an installed tiles client to connect to a server, I would love to know how! Thank you!

[galehar]

It's not possible yet, but it will be someday.

[lordfrikk]

I'm probably talking out of my ass here, so forgive me, but wouldn't a proper client/server online playing be easier to program than webtiles? From what I've gathered, webtiles need to be created from scratch in some respects, but with client/server the problem is just synchronizing the data and assuring that the data haven't been tampered with, since you already have a working client (the offline SDL application).

[Euph0ria]

I'm probably talking out of my ass here, so forgive me, but wouldn't a proper client/server online playing be easier to program than webtiles? From what I've gathered, webtiles need to be created from scratch in some respects, but with client/server the problem is just synchronizing the data and assuring that the data haven't been tampered with, since you already have a working client (the offline SDL application).

That is exactly my line of thinking. The tiles version is able to easily translate locally what would otherwise be ASCII data to Tiles... why not connect via HTTPS or some other secure/ecrypted protocol (I don't know much about that stuff), why not just have it do the same for the online versions? I miss the speed and options found on the local tiles version, but find much merit in playing online and sharing and collaborating with spectators.

[galehar]

Seems like you guys have no idea what you're talking about. Here are the details of the requirements to properly implement a client/server.

[lordfrikk]

I've read the link you posted, but as is obvious, that level of detail wasn't what I was asking about (and honestly is mostly beyond my grasp). I was just wondering if it's easier to start building upon the tiles application than starting to create a new one from scratch, ie. webtiles.

[galehar]

I've read the link you posted, but as is obvious, that level of detail wasn't what I was asking about (and honestly is mostly beyond my grasp). I was just wondering if it's easier to start building upon the tiles application than starting to create a new one from scratch, ie. webtiles.

Implementing a proper client/server is harder than implementing webtiles was. And webtiles wasn't "created from scratch".

[edlothiol]

I was just wondering if it's easier to start building upon the tiles application than starting to create a new one from scratch, ie. webtiles.

Well, no, it isn't.
The client is the easiest part here. The hard part is choosing which data to send, when to send it, in what format, and then making crawl do that -- basically what you called "just synchronizing the data". For example, the server can't just send the whole map after every step: that would take far too much bandwidth. So it needs to keep a copy of the map as it is displayed on the client, and then compare what changed and just send that. Similar things need to happen for most other data.
Also, the webtiles server already reuses parts of the tiles interface (tile picking, for example), and large parts of the client are modeled after the tiles code.

[Euph0ria]

I was just thinking of a implementation similar to Nethack. In the case where you can use a local GTK Nethack client to connect to a TTY Server and use the tiles version of the game instead of ASCII. I would think that it might be possible to do the same with Dungeon Crawl. Even if the intermediary interface it gets is just ASCII and then translated to tiles on the client side using a tiles version/interface of the game. I don't know if the game just isn't up to the same levels of development to do something like that but I thought since there was a webtiles version, that it might be. I imagine the bandwidth spent sending graphical tiles isn't insignificant compared to simply sending TTY ASCII that could be translated to tiles on the client side.

[galehar]

I was just thinking of a implementation similar to Nethack. In the case where you can use a local GTK Nethack client to connect to a TTY Server and use the tiles version of the game instead of ASCII. I would think that it might be possible to do the same with Dungeon Crawl. Even if the intermediary interface it gets is just ASCII and then translated to tiles on the client side using a tiles version/interface of the game. I don't know if the game just isn't up to the same levels of development to do something like that but I thought since there was a webtiles version, that it might be. I imagine the bandwidth spent sending graphical tiles isn't insignificant compared to simply sending TTY ASCII that could be translated to tiles on the client side.

It has been tried, that was nettiles. It was lacking some tiles features, since it has more information than ascii (HP bars, wielded weapons). But the real problem was that it wasn't maintained so when crawl evolved, it stayed behind and didn't work anymore. NH obviously doesn't have this problem. I don't see the point of trying it again since it doesn't do anything that webtiles doesn't. A real client/server on the other hand would bring a bunch of exciting features. For example you could use tiles to watch someone play even if he's playing console, and have a look at his inventory and spell list while he's killing monsters.

[lordfrikk]

Wow, that really does sound awesome!

[Euph0ria]

I was just thinking of a implementation similar to Nethack. In the case where you can use a local GTK Nethack client to connect to a TTY Server and use the tiles version of the game instead of ASCII. I would think that it might be possible to do the same with Dungeon Crawl. Even if the intermediary interface it gets is just ASCII and then translated to tiles on the client side using a tiles version/interface of the game. I don't know if the game just isn't up to the same levels of development to do something like that but I thought since there was a webtiles version, that it might be. I imagine the bandwidth spent sending graphical tiles isn't insignificant compared to simply sending TTY ASCII that could be translated to tiles on the client side.

It has been tried, that was nettiles. It was lacking some tiles features, since it has more information than ascii (HP bars, wielded weapons). But the real problem was that it wasn't maintained so when crawl evolved, it stayed behind and didn't work anymore. NH obviously doesn't have this problem. I don't see the point of trying it again since it doesn't do anything that webtiles doesn't. A real client/server on the other hand would bring a bunch of exciting features. For example you could use tiles to watch someone play even if he's playing console, and have a look at his inventory and spell list while he's killing monsters.

I agree, the potential for a server/client would be quite nice, especially as you mentioned the vicarious features of being able to observe someone else playing! In addition to that, the possibly custom made tile sets, and increased game play performance and feature set on the client side (webtiles can be very laggy and lacks features that the local tiles version has, for example). An integrated community chat would be nice too! Can't hurt to brainstorm I guess. It would go a long way into making a roguelike into more of a social networking game. That would be a bit of a landmark for roguelikes.