Rune lock


Although the central place for this kind of discussion is on the CDO wiki, some may find it helpful to discuss potential requests and suggestions here first.

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Dungeon Master

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Post Thursday, 31st October 2013, 16:27

Rune lock

It's in. Now the important question: what colour should the D:14 stairs be? :)
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Thursday, 31st October 2013, 16:31

Re: Rune lock

galehar wrote:It's in. Now the important question: what colour should the D:14 stairs be? :)


A nice magenta, please.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 31st October 2013, 16:45

Re: Rune lock

Orange with pink polka dots and yellow stripes. :)
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Tomb Titivator

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Post Thursday, 31st October 2013, 16:57

Re: Rune lock

Is it free to go up? I'm worried about trunk characters who dived below D:14 without doing lair, not that I know if there are any of those.

EDIT: Looks like going up is fine from the source
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Dungeon Master

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Post Thursday, 31st October 2013, 17:01

Re: Rune lock

Yeah, it's free to go up, although you'll need a rune to go down again
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Tomb Titivator

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Post Thursday, 31st October 2013, 17:16

Re: Rune lock

red
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Dungeon Master

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Post Thursday, 31st October 2013, 18:28

Re: Rune lock

Green, like a Vault Warden, clearly showing you can't go down.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 31st October 2013, 18:31

Re: Rune lock

Is it possible to use different colors depending on runes presence? Red when not available, green when available.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Thursday, 31st October 2013, 18:49

Re: Rune lock

Sandman25 wrote:Is it possible to use different colors depending on runes presence? Red when not available, green when available.

I presume the tile/glyph would just turn into a normal staircase when a rune is obtained.
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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Thursday, 31st October 2013, 20:05

Re: Rune lock

Why was this change put in trunk instead of an experimental branch?
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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Thursday, 31st October 2013, 21:07

Re: Rune lock

I, for one, welcome our new Rune Lock overlords.

Also, I'd suggest a nice, classy shade of mauve. Or perhaps a distinctive cyan. Or, though it might be a bit gaudy, gold.

Or red if we want to be simple, dull, and clear.
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Klown

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Post Thursday, 31st October 2013, 22:00

Re: Rune lock

pubby wrote:Why was this change put in trunk instead of an experimental branch?

Why would you need an experimental branch when .13 just came out? It is open season in trunk. This isn't a 7 million LOC mission-critical product like linux, we don't need things to be established as stable before going into a nightly build. I'm sure they also want the greater amount of people playing to look at statistics on people dying in rune branches. Makes sense to me.

Blades Runner

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Post Thursday, 31st October 2013, 22:44

Re: Rune lock

Is D:15-27 possibly going to be split into a separate branch?
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Thursday, 31st October 2013, 23:05

Re: Rune lock

I dislike the idea of the rune lock, but as others have pointed out, things can go in trunk that don't make it to release. What I am most interested in at this point is what the criteria are for deciding whether or not the rune lock is a success that should stay.

Zot Zealot

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Post Thursday, 31st October 2013, 23:59

Re: Rune lock

But now how can we play "Do not enter Lair" challenge games?! I demand a portal to D:15 is placed at the bottom of Elf:3.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 1st November 2013, 03:53

Re: Rune lock

Could we get a Wordpress post for this change? It seems worthy.

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Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 1st November 2013, 09:41

Re: Rune lock

duvessa: Good idea! Done.

WalkerBoh: This is not a major problem -- there will be other challenges!
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Friday, 1st November 2013, 10:08

Re: Rune lock

Elf having a Hell portal would be good. It would make the earlyish hell games not dependent on one specific lair end.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Friday, 1st November 2013, 12:47

Re: Rune lock

Ohhh I like that.

Shoals Surfer

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Post Friday, 1st November 2013, 13:39

Re: Rune lock

Liking rune lock so far.

Mines Malingerer

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Post Friday, 1st November 2013, 14:25

Re: Rune lock

Abyss, Hell and Pan gates could be available before rune lock for "skilled players" who want a challenge. Pan gate would fit in Elf:3 since they have demonologists.

Tomb Titivator

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Post Friday, 1st November 2013, 14:30

Re: Rune lock

First post-rune lock attempt at an early rune was a great success. Of course, I was a gargoyle with repel missiles castable, which kind of trivialized shoals, but nonetheless, 1/1. My choices were that and spider, I chose to do D:1-11, Lair:1-8, D:12-14, Orc:1-4, Shoals:1-4, Spider:1-4, Shoals:5, and then died in Vaults.

EDIT: I also got abyssed on orc:4 which helped get me a good bit of xp. I was level 17 when starting Shoals:5.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 1st November 2013, 14:38

Re: Rune lock

I started a new game (HuHu) to try out the lock, but I don't think it'll be very representative. Lair on 8 and lots of lucky drops, including a potion of experience.

Spider Stomper

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Post Friday, 1st November 2013, 14:49

Re: Rune lock

Yesterday, my HuFi of Fedhas got Margery inside the vault of the gossamer rune. The vault was the one with several concentric layers and 3 emperor scorpions and 3 ghost moths at the center. Margery had the sword of Jihad, so she didn't cast spells too much. As usual, one of her hell knights had a demon whip of distortion.

My wandering mushrooms worked quite well on the emperor scorpions. It wasn't too hard, but this character had a lot of luck with his equipment: I entered the spider nest at 15 XL with a well enchanted broad axe of flaming, a slaying bonus, poison resistance and clarity.

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14-a0-505-gd5f0ba7 (console) character file.

Berni the Severer (Human Fighter)                  Turns: 47935, Time: 03:44:15

HP 135/135       AC 24     Str 23      XL: 18   Next: 44%
MP  35/35        EV 12     Int 11      God: Fedhas [******]
Gold 1546        SH 15     Dex 19      Spells:  1 memorised, 38 levels left

Res.Fire  : + . .   See Invis. : .   a - +7 broad axe (flame)
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : .   O - +6 scale mail "Cley" {Str+3 Dam+4}
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : +   r - +2 buckler of Lugonu {Acc+3}
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : .   I - +2 wizard hat {MR+}
Res.Elec. : +       Clarity    : .   q - +0 cloak of Sunlight {rElec Int+1}
Sust.Abil.: . .     Spirit.Shd : .   P - +0 pair of gauntlets {Dex+3}
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   B - +2 pair of dwarf boots {rF+}
Res.Rott. : .       Flight     : .   w - amulet of conservation
Saprovore : . . .                    e - ring of sustenance
                                     v - +3 ring of evasion

@: quite resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: no striking features
a: Evolution, Sunlight, Growth, Reproduction, Rain, Renounce Religion
}: 1/15 runes: gossamer


You are on level 16 of the Dungeon.
You worship Fedhas.
Fedhas is exalted by your worship.
You are hungry.

You have visited 5 branches of the dungeon, and seen 34 of its levels.
You have also visited: Ossuary and Volcano.

You have collected 2916 gold pieces.
You have spent 1370 gold pieces at shops.

   Skills:
 - Level 10,3 Fighting
 - Level 18,1 Axes
 - Level 4,0 Throwing
 - Level 13,6 Armour
 - Level 0,6 Dodging
 - Level 5,9 Shields
 - Level 11,7 Spellcasting
 + Level 10,2 Charms
 - Level 7,7 Invocations


Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +7,+7 broad axe of flaming (weapon)
 b - a +0 blowgun
 K - a demon whip of distortion {!w}
 M - the +2,+8 scimitar "Huah" {freeze, rN+}
   (You found it on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It has been specially enchanted to freeze those struck by it, causing extra
   injury to most foes and up to double damage against particularly susceptible
   opponents. It can also slow down cold-blooded creatures.
   
   It protects you from negative energy.
Missiles
 l - 4 javelins (quivered)
 T - 6 curare-tipped needles
Armour
 q - the +0 cloak of Sunlight (worn) {rElec Int+1}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+1).
   It insulates you from electricity.
 r - the +2 buckler of Lugonu (worn) {Acc+3}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It affects your accuracy (+3).
 B - a +2 pair of dwarven boots of fire resistance (worn)
 I - a +2 wizard hat of magic resistance (worn)
 O - the +6 scale mail "Cley" (worn) {Str+3 Dam+4}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+4).
 P - a +0 pair of gauntlets of dexterity (worn)
Magical devices
 x - a wand of disintegration
 D - a wand of disintegration
 F - a wand of digging {zapped: 2}
 J - a wand of teleportation (7)
Comestibles
 c - a pear {!e}
 j - 3 meat rations
 u - a beef jerky
 A - a royal jelly
 V - 2 apples {!e}
 Y - 2 bread rations
Scrolls
 n - 3 scrolls of fog
 s - 2 scrolls of identify
 z - a scroll of remove curse
 G - a scroll of fear
 L - 2 scrolls of teleportation
 X - a scroll of blinking
 Z - a scroll of magic mapping
Jewellery
 e - a ring of sustenance (right hand)
 g - an uncursed amulet of clarity
 h - an uncursed ring of ice
 i - an uncursed ring of flight
 p - an uncursed ring of poison resistance
 t - the ring of Koxink {+/*Tele Hunger rF++ rN+ Int+3}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Spider Nest)   
   
   [ring of teleportation]
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It greatly protects you from fire.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It speeds your metabolism.
 v - a +3 ring of evasion (left hand)
 w - an amulet of conservation (around neck)
 y - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 E - an uncursed dented steel amulet {tried}
 S - an uncursed ring of positive energy
Potions
 d - a potion of flight
 k - 5 potions of curing
 m - a potion of might
 o - 3 potions of heal wounds
 C - a potion of agility
 H - a potion of berserk rage {!q}
 N - a potion of restore abilities
 Q - a potion of speed
 R - a potion of resistance
 W - a potion of invisibility
Magical staves
 U - an uncursed staff of cold
Rods
 f - a +1 rod of demonology (10/10)
   (You found it on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)


You have 38 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
g - Fire Brand            Chrm/Fire      ###.......   2%          2    None


Table legend:
 A = Turns spent in this place as a percentage of turns spent in the
     entire game.
 B = Non-inter-level travel turns spent in this place as a percentage of
     non-inter-level travel turns spent in the entire game.
 C = Inter-level travel turns spent in this place as a percentage of
     turns spent in this place.
 D = Turns resting spent in this place as a percentage of non-inter-level
     travel turns spent in this place.
 E = Turns spent auto-exploring this place as a percentage of
     non-inter-level travel turns spent in this place.
 F = Non-inter-level travel turns spent in this place divided by the
     number of levels of this place that you've seen.

                   A       B       C       D       E               F
               +-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+----------------------
         Total | 100,0 | 100,0 |   0,4 |   1,8 |   0,7 |         774,8
       Dungeon |  43,9 |  43,9 |   0,4 |   1,8 |   1,5 |         766,0
        Temple |   0,1 |   0,1 |   0,0 |   0,0 |   0,0 |          21,0
  Orcish Mines |   9,2 |   9,2 |   0,3 |   1,4 |   0,0 |         644,8
          Lair |  23,1 |  23,0 |   0,6 |   1,2 |   0,0 |         803,4
   Spider Nest |  20,5 |  20,6 |   0,3 |   2,1 |   0,1 |        1147,0
       Ossuary |   1,0 |   1,0 |   0,0 |   0,7 |   0,0 |         272,0
       Volcano |   2,2 |   2,2 |   0,0 |   6,3 |   0,0 |         603,0
               +-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+----------------------


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Hand axe          |   124 |   200 |   210 |       |       |       ||   534
       Battleaxe         |       |       |   125 |   853 |       |       ||   978
       War axe           |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
       Broad axe         |       |       |       |    31 |  1099 |  1313 ||  2443
 Fire: Sling             |       |     2 |       |       |       |       ||     2
       Blowgun           |       |       |       |       |     7 |    85 ||    92
Throw: Stone             |       |     4 |       |       |       |       ||     4
       Javelin           |       |       |       |    16 |    15 |     9 ||    40
Invok: Evolution         |       |     3 |     6 |     9 |       |     8 ||    26
       Sunlight          |       |       |       |     3 |    11 |    33 ||    47
       Reproduction      |       |       |       |       |     1 |    13 ||    14
Evoke: Wand              |       |     4 |     6 |    17 |    10 |     6 ||    43
  Use: Scroll            |       |     5 |    20 |     7 |    15 |    13 ||    60
       Potion            |       |       |     6 |     3 |     1 |     8 ||    18
 Stab: Confused          |       |       |     7 |     7 |       |    13 ||    27
       Distracted        |       |       |       |     2 |     2 |       ||     4

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (16/27)            Temple (1/1) D:5             Orc (4/4) D:7
    Elf (0/3) Orc:4          Lair (8/8) D:12         Shoals (0/5) Lair:5
 Spider (5/5) Lair:6        Slime (0/6) Lair:7     
Vaults: D:15-20     

Altars:
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Makhleb
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Beogh
Jiyva

Shops:
D:7 +?   D:8 ?   Orc:4 +(/[![[

Portals:
Trove: D:10 (give wand of heal wounds (9))

Annotations:
Lair:5 rupert!, Rupert
Lair:7 vault


Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Berni, the Human Fighter, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 18/18 MP: 0/0
   461 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 22/24 MP: 1/1
   734 | D:2      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
   738 | D:2      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
   741 | D:2      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
   759 | D:2      | Became a worshipper of Fedhas Madash
   826 | D:2      | Reached skill level 3 in Axes
   882 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 27/30 MP: 2/2
  1181 | D:2      | Reached skill level 4 in Axes
  1181 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 36/36 MP: 3/3
  1336 | D:2      | Acquired Fedhas' first power
  2214 | D:4      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 41/41 MP: 4/4
  2484 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Axes
  3086 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3223 | D:5      | Noticed an ogre
  3503 | D:5      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 46/48 MP: 5/5
  3658 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Axes
  3763 | D:5      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  3769 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  4019 | D:5      | Killed an ogre
  4132 | D:5      | Reached skill level 7 in Axes
  4132 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 53/53 MP: 6/6
  4219 | D:5      | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations
  4386 | D:6      | Noticed Blork the orc
  4386 | D:6      | Noticed Grinder
  4394 | D:6      | Acquired Fedhas' second power
  4397 | D:6      | Paralysed by Grinder for 5 turns
  4403 | D:6      | Reached skill level 2 in Invocations
  4425 | D:6      | Got a heavily runed helmet
  4434 | D:6      | Reached skill level 3 in Invocations
  4437 | D:6      | Identified the +0 helmet of the Kangaroo {+Blink Dex+3} (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)
  4576 | D:6      | Noticed Edmund
  4625 | D:6      | HP: 2/53 [giant frog (3)]
  4821 | D:7      | Noticed a hungry ghost
  4854 | D:7      | Killed a hungry ghost
  4854 | D:7      | Reached skill level 8 in Axes
  4854 | D:7      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 58/60 MP: 11/11
  5841 | D:5      | Killed Edmund
  5841 | D:5      | Reached skill level 9 in Axes
  6032 | D:6      | Killed Blork the orc
  6102 | D:6      | Killed Grinder
  6223 | D:6      | Reached skill level 10 in Axes
  6315 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 65/65 MP: 12/12
  6504 | D:7      | Found Shuz's Magic Scroll Shoppe.
  6559 | D:7      | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
  6569 | D:7      | Paralysed by a goblin for 5 turns
  6591 | D:7      | Reached skill level 11 in Axes
  6752 | D:7      | Found a sand-covered staircase.
  6759 | Ossuary  | Entered an ossuary
  7501 | D:7      | Found Jeteoch's Book Emporium.
  7679 | D:7      | Acquired Fedhas' third power
  8194 | D:8      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns
  8201 | D:8      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
  8208 | D:8      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
  8214 | D:8      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
  8280 | D:8      | Noticed Pikel
  8292 | D:8      | Killed Pikel
  8292 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  8292 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 64/74 MP: 14/14
  8338 | D:8      | Found Valaes' Magic Scroll Boutique.
  8353 | D:8      | Bought a scroll of recharging for 71 gold pieces
  8367 | D:8      | Noticed Maurice
  8428 | D:8      | Killed Maurice
  8428 | D:8      | Reached skill level 6 in Fighting
  8666 | D:9      | Noticed Eustachio
  8676 | D:9      | Killed Eustachio
  8676 | D:9      | Reached skill level 4 in Armour
  8849 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
  9156 | D:9      | Reached skill level 4 in Invocations
  9165 | D:9      | Noticed Gastronok
  9207 | D:9      | Killed Gastronok
  9207 | D:9      | Reached skill level 6 in Invocations
  9573 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
  9660 | D:10     | Noticed a cyclops
  9674 | D:10     | Killed a cyclops
  9674 | D:10     | Reached skill level 12 in Axes
  9674 | D:10     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 59/82 MP: 20/20
 10171 | D:10     | Noticed Sonja
 10187 | D:10     | Killed Sonja
 11098 | D:10     | Noticed a vault guard
 11132 | D:10     | Killed a vault guard
 11132 | D:10     | Reached skill level 13 in Axes
 11296 | D:10     | Found a portal to a secret trove of treasure.
 11825 | D:11     | Acquired Fedhas' fourth power
 12958 | D:11     | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 13102 | D:12     | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
 13178 | D:12     | Noticed a skeletal warrior
 13191 | D:12     | Noticed a skeletal warrior
 13551 | D:11     | Reached skill level 14 in Axes
 14205 | D:12     | Noticed Psyche
 14205 | D:12     | Noticed a skeletal warrior
 14873 | D:12     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 15304 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 15462 | Lair:1   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 85/89 MP: 21/21
 15849 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 15 in Axes
 16141 | Lair:1   | Acquired Fedhas' fifth power
 17954 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 16 in Axes
 18085 | Lair:3   | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
 18098 | Lair:3   | Killed a seven-headed hydra
 18342 | Lair:3   | Noticed a six-headed hydra
 18374 | Lair:3   | Killed a six-headed hydra
 18537 | Lair:3   | Found a dark tunnel.
 18543 | Volcano  | Entered a volcano
 19716 | Volcano  | Reached skill level 7 in Fighting
 20166 | Lair:3   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 75/96 MP: 22/22
 20514 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 8 in Fighting
 21045 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 9 in Fighting
 21082 | Lair:4   | Got a bloodstained scimitar
 21367 | Lair:4   | Identified the +2,+8 scimitar "Huah" {freeze, rN+} (You found it on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts)
 21422 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 21510 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 6 in Armour
 21676 | Lair:5   | Identified a +1 rod of demonology (10/10) (You found it on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)
 21684 | Lair:5   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 21760 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 7 in Armour
 21948 | Lair:5   | Noticed Rupert
 22290 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 8 in Armour
 22481 | Lair:6   | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
 22952 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 17 in Axes
 22978 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 18 in Axes
 22978 | Lair:6   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 64/108 MP: 23/23
 23353 | Lair:7   | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 23354 | Lair:7   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 23679 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 9 in Armour
 23857 | Lair:7   | Reached XP level 15. HP: 111/114 MP: 24/24
 24489 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 24743 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 10 in Armour
 26067 | D:12     | Noticed Fannar
 26204 | D:12     | Killed Fannar
 26361 | D:12     | Noticed a hill giant
 26369 | D:12     | Killed a hill giant
 26374 | D:12     | Killed Psyche
 26399 | D:11     | Killed a hydra
 26399 | D:11     | Reached skill level 11 in Armour
 26431 | D:11     | Noticed a cyclops
 26444 | D:11     | Killed a cyclops
 26809 | D:12     | Killed a three-headed hydra
 26959 | D:12     | Noticed a cyclops
 26985 | D:12     | Killed a cyclops
 27528 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 27528 | Orc:1    | Noticed Joseph
 28052 | Orc:1    | Killed Joseph
 28998 | Orc:3    | Reached skill level 12 in Armour
 29519 | Orc:2    | Noticed Erolcha
 29537 | Orc:2    | Killed Erolcha
 29644 | Orc:3    | Noticed Grum
 29659 | Orc:3    | Killed Grum
 29668 | Orc:3    | Noticed Urug
 29679 | Orc:3    | Killed Urug
 29911 | Orc:4    | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines
 29938 | Orc:4    | Found Trozxepo's Book Boutique.
 30232 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 30414 | Orc:4    | Found Tuefex's Antique Armour Shoppe.
 30424 | Orc:4    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 30439 | Orc:4    | Found Puag's Antique Armour Boutique.
 30444 | Orc:4    | Bought a faintly humming cloak for 216 gold pieces
 30445 | Orc:4    | Bought an ancient buckler for 270 gold pieces
 30455 | Orc:4    | Identified the +0 cloak of Sunlight {rElec Int+1} (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)
 31204 | Orc:4    | Reached skill level 13 in Armour
 31864 | Orc:4    | Found Shric's Antique Armour Emporium.
 31864 | Orc:4    | Found Temab's Distillery.
 31889 | Orc:4    | Found Kulu's Magical Wand Shop.
 31902 | Orc:4    | Found Gajoacyw's Weapon Shop.
 31913 | Orc:4    | Bought a warped scale mail for 425 gold pieces
 32043 | D:7      | Bought a scroll of identify for 30 gold pieces
 32043 | D:7      | Bought a scroll of identify for 30 gold pieces
 32045 | D:7      | Identified the +2 buckler of Lugonu {Acc+3} (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)
 32242 | Orc:4    | Bought a glowing orcish scale mail for 224 gold pieces
 32325 | D:8      | Bought a scroll of identify for 26 gold pieces
 32325 | D:8      | Bought a scroll of identify for 26 gold pieces
 32325 | D:8      | Bought a scroll of curse weapon for 26 gold pieces
 32325 | D:8      | Bought a scroll of identify for 26 gold pieces
 32465 | Lair:2   | Identified the +6 scale mail "Cley" {Str+3 Dam+4} (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)
 32572 | Spider:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Spider Nest
 32741 | Spider:1 | Got a brightly glowing brass ring
 32745 | Spider:1 | Identified the ring of Koxink {+/*Tele Hunger rF++ rN+ Int+3} (You found it on level 1 of the Spider Nest)
 32956 | Spider:1 | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing
 33046 | Spider:1 | Reached skill level 2 in Throwing
 33194 | Spider:1 | Reached skill level 3 in Throwing
 33194 | Spider:1 | Reached XP level 16. HP: 119/121 MP: 25/25
 33514 | Spider:1 | Reached skill level 4 in Throwing
 33863 | Spider:1 | Reached skill level 4 in Shields
 34423 | Spider:2 | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
 34867 | Spider:2 | Reached skill level 1 in Spellcasting
 34993 | Spider:2 | Reached skill level 2 in Spellcasting
 35293 | Spider:3 | Reached skill level 3 in Spellcasting
 35756 | Spider:3 | Reached skill level 4 in Spellcasting
 36156 | Spider:4 | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
 36678 | Spider:4 | Reached skill level 6 in Spellcasting
 37162 | Spider:4 | Reached skill level 7 in Spellcasting
 37474 | Spider:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Spider Nest
 37675 | Spider:5 | Reached skill level 8 in Spellcasting
 38416 | Spider:5 | Reached skill level 9 in Spellcasting
 38418 | Spider:5 | Reached XP level 17. HP: 117/127 MP: 30/32
 38938 | Spider:5 | Noticed Margery
 40223 | Spider:4 | Killed Margery
 40223 | Spider:4 | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
 41453 | Spider:5 | Reached skill level 11 in Spellcasting
 42261 | Spider:5 | Reached skill level 7 in Invocations
 42428 | Spider:5 | Got a gossamer rune of Zot
 42697 | Lair:2   | Learned a level 2 spell: Fire Brand
 43169 | D:12     | Reached skill level 1 in Charms
 43177 | D:12     | Killed a skeletal warrior
 43226 | D:12     | Killed a skeletal warrior
 43226 | D:12     | Reached skill level 2 in Charms
 43253 | D:12     | Killed a skeletal warrior
 43649 | D:13     | Noticed a wolf spider
 43654 | D:13     | Killed a wolf spider
 43727 | D:13     | Reached skill level 3 in Charms
 44000 | D:13     | Noticed a centaur warrior
 44004 | D:13     | Killed a centaur warrior
 44014 | D:13     | Noticed a wolf spider
 44021 | D:13     | Killed a wolf spider
 44168 | D:13     | Reached skill level 4 in Charms
 44345 | D:13     | Noticed a griffon
 44358 | D:13     | Killed a griffon
 44437 | D:13     | Noticed an ogre mage
 44447 | D:13     | Killed an ogre mage
 44767 | D:14     | Reached skill level 5 in Charms
 45375 | D:14     | Noticed Nikola
 45393 | D:14     | Killed Nikola
 45393 | D:14     | Reached skill level 6 in Charms
 45393 | D:14     | Reached XP level 18. HP: 117/135 MP: 32/35
 45693 | D:14     | Reached skill level 7 in Charms
 45840 | D:14     | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 45907 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 46214 | D:15     | Reached skill level 8 in Charms
 46574 | D:15     | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
 46911 | D:16     | Reached skill level 9 in Charms
 47616 | D:16     | Noticed Josephine
 47625 | D:16     | Killed Josephine
 47625 | D:16     | Reached skill level 10 in Charms

Message History

 Anything else - Stay silent.
Follow me!
Eat which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
All of the corpses in your inventory have completely rotted away.
Y - a bread ration
You swap places.
You see here an ugly thing skeleton.
Y - 2 bread rations (gained 1)
You swap places.
Things that are here:
a giant club; a two-headed ogre skeleton
You see here a glowing great mace.
Char dumped to 'morgue/Berni.txt'.
Save game and exit?
Welcome back, Berni the Human Fighter.
Fedhas says: Spread life and death.
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.
Char dumped to 'morgue/Berni.txt'.
Save game and exit?

#.#...#.#....###..###############
#.#..#..#....###..##...#.........
..#.(#.......'.#..##.#.#.########
...##...#....#.#.....#.#.#    #..
##....#.#....#.#..####.#.#    #.#
 #....#.#......#<).....#.#    #.#
...##...###.##....######.#    # #
..#..#..# #...........##f#      #
#.#..#..######..@.###.##.#    ###
#.#...#...[.....f...#.##f#    #..
.#....#....###..f.#.#.##.#    #.#
.#...#.....# #....#.#f##.#    #.#
#....#.....# #....#.#.##.#    #.#
....#..##### ####)#.#.f..#    #.#
....#.###########%#.###########.#
...#..# #......##.#...........#.#
#%...## #............########.#.#


You can see 2 friendly wandering mushrooms.


Zot Zealot

Posts: 1031

Joined: Friday, 26th April 2013, 19:52

Location: AZ, USA

Post Friday, 1st November 2013, 15:22

Re: Rune lock

dpeg wrote:WalkerBoh: This is not a major problem -- there will be other challenges!

Hehe of course, I was only kidding. The hell portal on elf:3 is a cool idea though.

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 27

Joined: Friday, 9th September 2011, 17:43

Post Friday, 1st November 2013, 16:43

Re: Rune lock

The Speed Demon III banner (reach D27 in 27 mins) will be more difficult to get with rune lock. Maybe it will actually be a challenge for jeanjacques now =P

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Barkeep

Posts: 1785

Joined: Saturday, 29th June 2013, 16:52

Post Friday, 1st November 2013, 17:30

Re: Rune lock

ackack wrote:I dislike the idea of the rune lock, but as others have pointed out, things can go in trunk that don't make it to release. What I am most interested in at this point is what the criteria are for deciding whether or not the rune lock is a success that should stay.


I'm also interested in this, though I assume the answer is the devs will look at how dramatically it affects the win rate and ask for player feedback before making a decision about whether or not it makes it into 0.14 proper. I'm perfectly willing to play with the concept in trunk to satisfy dpeg's desire to see this in action in the meantime, though.

I've already got myself down elsewhere as disagreeing with this change, as it sharply limits the player's decision space and makes a lot of trickle-down changes in order to fix a relatively simple perceived design flaw. Right now, crawl is fundamentally a game about finding the path of least resistance, but the rune lock eliminates numerous paths and makes a much more linear route through the game. Crawl's relative openness is one of my favorite features of the game, and rune lock can't help but impact that in a major way.

But like I said, I'm happy to see where it goes. I just hope that the game's development remains flexible in the meantime; the rune lock will be a success even if it doesn't make it into the final release if it incentivizes people to come up with other solutions to the lair branch problem.

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Mines Malingerer

Posts: 53

Joined: Thursday, 11th October 2012, 11:33

Post Friday, 1st November 2013, 18:25

Re: Rune lock

Showing armour egos without having to try them on would make finding rPois less tedious. My hunch is that there's a pretty decent change of a game having one pre-rune-lock, but we don't usually notice since we don't try on everything.

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Slime Squisher

Posts: 419

Joined: Wednesday, 21st September 2011, 09:45

Post Friday, 1st November 2013, 18:30

Re: Rune lock

flun wrote:The Speed Demon III banner (reach D27 in 27 mins) will be more difficult to get with rune lock. Maybe it will actually be a challenge for jeanjacques now =P

And Lord of Darkness banner will be a history

Zot Zealot

Posts: 1031

Joined: Friday, 26th April 2013, 19:52

Location: AZ, USA

Post Friday, 1st November 2013, 20:10

Re: Rune lock

No way, just go to Elf and get yourself abyssed.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3618

Joined: Thursday, 23rd December 2010, 12:43

Post Friday, 1st November 2013, 20:12

Re: Rune lock

All this talk about banners and challenges is completely besides the point. First, there will be no shortage of new banners and challenges. Second, if the rune lock stays, there will be no shortage of nifty ideas how to circumvent it. (Some that I've seen so far and that looked interesting: predetected shafts on D:14, portal to Vaults in Elf, hell portal in Elf.)

Spider Stomper

Posts: 187

Joined: Sunday, 4th September 2011, 20:45

Post Friday, 1st November 2013, 20:22

Re: Rune lock

In my current 0.13 game I've sort of stumbled into trying this after doing the first two floors of Shoals directly following Lair. Tough but fun; my HaIE has just made XL20 after doing all of Elf, Shoals and Spider bar the final floors, which are half-cleared and hard (Mara on Spider 5, Jory - a new one for me - on Shoals 5) - the total includes the proceeds of a potion of experience. I haven't ventured below D14 yet, but the uniques at the branch ends are pushing me that way. I don't often get this far and I don't want to mess it up. Of course, if the runelock were in operation I wouldn't be able to go further down the dungeon and would have to either think harder or end up taking more chances, or both.

It's a worthwhile experiment and I look forward to seeing what comes out of it.
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5832

Joined: Thursday, 10th February 2011, 18:30

Post Saturday, 2nd November 2013, 00:21

Re: Rune lock

dpeg wrote:portal to Vaults in Elf


That's wrong.

Let me fix that for you.

Portal from Elf:3 to one end of the Hall of Blades.
Exit from opposite end of Hall of Blades into Vaults:? where Vaults:? is wherever the entrance to HAll of Blades from Vaults is.

I mean, IT IS A HALL... granted, that's a place you eat, but it could also mean a HALLWAY. From Elf:3 to Vaults:X.

And it makes Hall of Blades semi-relevant.
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Slime Squisher

Posts: 419

Joined: Wednesday, 21st September 2011, 09:45

Post Saturday, 2nd November 2013, 02:24

Re: Rune lock

dpeg wrote:All this talk about banners and challenges is completely besides the point. First, there will be no shortage of new banners and challenges. Second, if the rune lock stays, there will be no shortage of nifty ideas how to circumvent it. (Some that I've seen so far and that looked interesting: predetected shafts on D:14, portal to Vaults in Elf, hell portal in Elf.)

Just pointed that out. Personally I could not care less about f*ckin banners in the tourney.
Runelock will make this game even harder for the new players. Newbies are forced to deal with the deep uniques, some of the deadliest opponents in the whole Dungeon at very low XP level. Lair branches 1-4 might be doable, but if you have underleveled character meeting Sojobo/Boris and Mennas/Margery in your both branch ends, where do you go? Elf? Is this what you devs are looking for? To establish the Elven Halls more fashionable?
And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the runelock is a bad idea. It just have to be carefully orchestrated because it will be a major change. My guess is that poison resistance will be even more desired than before because every branch (including The Shoals in a lesser extent) is more survivable with rPois for a new player.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3163

Joined: Friday, 6th January 2012, 18:45

Post Saturday, 2nd November 2013, 02:31

Re: Rune lock

It'll be a stealth renaissance!

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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Saturday, 2nd November 2013, 03:11

Re: Rune lock

Well, Mennas does not care about Stealth, Margery and Sojobo are generated with dangerous bands and have sInv... I am playing a stabbing Sp in trunk currently and hope to see how hard it is to rely on Stealth for runes.

dck

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1650

Joined: Tuesday, 30th July 2013, 11:29

Post Saturday, 2nd November 2013, 03:14

Re: Rune lock

What I believe is pretty bad is forcing a new guy to tackle guys like gnagas and impalers and aquamancers at pretty low level instead of giving them the option to come back later. What also is pretty bad is the huge jump in difficulty from rune vaults to the other four levels. Hell, the shoals end with all the huts is full of junk until you open a door and impalers and aquamancers come into view and if you're unspoiled there's a big chance that is the first time you've even seen them. Also ilsuiw in shoals: $ always spawns with her gang in that place with deep water and the stone pillars, and people doing shoals don't know it's a good idea to avoid this.
And it'll make more people try to go to elf if they are having a rough time elsewhere and elf is kind of an awful branch because it's really dangerous, but danger is not normally apparent until it suddenly comes in a huge burst and you die in three turns.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3618

Joined: Thursday, 23rd December 2010, 12:43

Post Saturday, 2nd November 2013, 03:15

Re: Rune lock

I have just committed two trivial changes. One removes the Swamp/etc-end-exclusive uniques cannot spawn there anymore (Boris, Frederick, Jory, Margery, Mennas, Sojobo, Xtahua) and the other allows uniques which could spawn in Swamp/etc already but not on the last level (Kirke, Louise, Nessos, Nikola, Roxanne, Rupert, Snorg).

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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1850

Joined: Monday, 20th December 2010, 04:22

Location: Surabaya, Indonesia

Post Saturday, 2nd November 2013, 04:12

Re: Rune lock

I see that Crawl slowly turns into a game with less surprises than before.
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5832

Joined: Thursday, 10th February 2011, 18:30

Post Sunday, 3rd November 2013, 06:25

Re: Rune lock

TrHu of Chei.
D1 - 14, L1-8, O1-4, N1-5, rune acquired.
Currently handing Swamp 1, which has a horrible internal entry vault with 8 hydra. Very glad I did all of the rest first and have a ton of large rocks.
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Dungeon Master

Posts: 431

Joined: Tuesday, 13th September 2011, 17:34

Post Sunday, 3rd November 2013, 06:49

Re: Rune lock

pratamawirya wrote:I see that Crawl slowly turns into a game with less surprises than before.

What? Some uniques got moved around. How is running into Nikola on Swamp:5 less surprising than running into Margery there?

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1093

Joined: Sunday, 12th August 2012, 02:29

Post Sunday, 3rd November 2013, 07:08

Re: Rune lock

Some surprises I rather not come across at all, such as meeting Mennas at Spider:5.

With the uniques gone, I think it is certainly feasible to try lair branches at a lower level, though I'm still bit concerned about the vital importance of rPois. Would it be possible to do the lair branches without it? Swamp would be doable I think, but not for others. And Shoal is annoying enough without sea snakes...

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6418

Joined: Friday, 6th July 2012, 12:48

Post Sunday, 3rd November 2013, 07:20

Re: Rune lock

Lair branches are less annoying with rPois but I've done them very often without. I played fairly strong characters though.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5852

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Sunday, 3rd November 2013, 07:26

Re: Rune lock

I've done both swamp and shoals at around level 15 now without rPois now, neither was horrible, but not having rPois does result in a more resting and retreating. Most of the things that poison in those branches aren't hard, and most of the hard things don't poison you (Swamp dragons being the exception, I think if I had had the swamp dragon ending it would've sucked fiercely)

My DD got a ways into spider:1 with no rPois before i just gave up and left (This is probably the combination of DD and no rPois, I think if I could've rested and healed I probably would've been OK, red poison is annoying as heck for a DD though), And the only time I've had Snake i also had rPois and it was not a problem (So I don't know how it will be to try with no rPois, I suspect bad)
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Temple Termagant

Posts: 7

Joined: Sunday, 3rd November 2013, 11:44

Post Sunday, 3rd November 2013, 11:53

Re: Rune lock

I think this is quite a bad idea. As said earlier it will make game harder to new players, and i think its bad idea in any game. Makes new player quite playing easier.

Another thing is that i doesn't make game any harder for playing good character combos, they can get that rune anyway. (like gargoyles with poison immunity) But it will make playing game really hard for those not optimal combos. And i think one of best moments in game is when you get that hard combo working.

This feel so cheap way try to make game harder.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3618

Joined: Thursday, 23rd December 2010, 12:43

Post Sunday, 3rd November 2013, 12:05

Re: Rune lock

Charos: We have been nerfing some things and buffing other things for years now. How can you say that "this [particular idea] is a bad idea because it makes the game harder" when precisely this has happened over the years. Some example for drastic nerfs: removal of levels, i.e. loot and xp (Hive, many branch levels), berserk nerf (e.g. amulet of Resist Slow), many spells nerfed, including powerful early game spells (e.g. Confusing Touch, Mephitic Cloud).

It's absolutely okay to dislike this change. I believe the improvement it brings to the game is quite indirect and not readily apparant. Then again, arguing with "new players" and "not optimal combos" at the same does not make too much sense to me either.

Halls Hopper

Posts: 64

Joined: Sunday, 3rd November 2013, 12:19

Post Sunday, 3rd November 2013, 12:30

Re: Rune lock

I must say I dislike the idea of rune lock. depg mentioned that they have been nerfing and buffing things for years.
However, I don't feel like this is neither a nerf nor buff, but rather something that forces people to play the game in certain way.
Now it would be "get wow of courage banner or don't bother to play" situation.
Maybe there would be a shaft to get past the lock but still.
What is the point forcing players to play the game in a certain way rather than the way they like.

I shudder from the idea that I must venture into elven halls to face abyss banishment just because I can't get the rune from swamp miasma ending without rpois while being too weak to tackle emperor scorpions at spiders nest...

There are better and less limitating ways to make the game harder, if that's what you are after.
These are, of course, just my opinions and not some universar truth.

-Zammy
ps. You could also make it so that character dies if he doesn't get speed demon banner... :P
Winning races: Ce, DD, DS, Dj, Dr, Fo, Gr, HO, LO, Mf, Mi, Na, Og, Tr
Winning backrounds: AK, Ar, As, Be, Cj, DK, Fi, Gl, Hu, Mo, Pr, Su, Wn

dck

Vestibule Violator

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Joined: Tuesday, 30th July 2013, 11:29

Post Sunday, 3rd November 2013, 13:58

Re: Rune lock

It is really stupid to have the shaft because now I can pretend the lock doesn't exist but have to lug all of my useful junk to the shaft before going through it.
Of course, the problem isn't the shaft.

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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1850

Joined: Monday, 20th December 2010, 04:22

Location: Surabaya, Indonesia

Post Sunday, 3rd November 2013, 15:15

Re: Rune lock

Zammy wrote:What is the point forcing players to play the game in a certain way rather than the way they like.

It's generally easier to develop a game that offers less freedom (though that doesn't necessarily mean the resulting game is rather poor).

ontoclasm wrote:What? Some uniques got moved around. How is running into Nikola on Swamp:5 less surprising than running into Margery there?

Of course Nikola is easier to deal with than Margery and her hell knight band (at least you only need one kind of item to make Nikola trivial). Finding Nikola on Swamp:5 is "surprising", but not as "surprising" as finding Margery there.

It's understandable though; rune lock can streamline the game so that the "gameplay flow" is smoother (and a smoother "gameplay flow" offers better play experience). But then you can't have sudden and drastic "difficulty jumps" like before, because the more streamlined game also offers less freedom (before rune lock, if we meet something really nasty on say Swamp:5, we can just avoid it and go down the main dungeon or something to beef up (lots of choices to do that)). Meeting Mennas on Spider:5 is sure nasty as hell (more than just meeting Nikola or Kirke), but that kind of unpredictable nastiness is a part of Crawl's charm.

Dungeon Dilettante

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Joined: Sunday, 3rd November 2013, 15:15

Post Sunday, 3rd November 2013, 15:20

Re: Rune lock


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