New mechanics for ammo destruction

[TeshiAlair]

Here's a thought, that I think would work well with also implementing a "each shot matters more" approach.

Make ammo in dungeon scarce, but have ammo shops.

This way, the unfun case of zero ammo is solvable, but generally speaking people aren't going to want to spend gold on 50 more arrows, so they will generally have only a few.

[damiac]

If you limit ammo in the game, will you also limit oka/trog ammo gifts?

If you make ammo tightly limited throughout the game, then I would think it'd be a terrible decision to ever take a ranged skill over evocations. Especially since rods exist. Tell me, how are those differentiated from magic? They use mp, cause spell hunger, recharge over time...

If ranged ammo is limited, then i'd be dumb to have it as my main killing skill. Therefore, I'd have to choose magic or melee as my main killing skill. Ranged is pointless if I have magic. Ranged with melee makes some sense, but why not use Evo instead? Look at the advice section. If someone asks what to use as their ranged weapon as a mainly melee character, it's almost always suggested to take Evo (unless you're an ogre or troll).

I'm not including throwing weapons in this, it seems like we are talking about ranged launchers here, thrown weapons seem fine as is, even though once again, they seem almost identical to wands in many ways, and if you make them mulch 100% of the time, they're even closer.

I don't know... I guess there's like 4 or 5 people saying ranged is too good, and that's enough to nerf it, in response to people complaining about not being able to depend on it... The attitude doesn't make any sense to me, and I feel like you're pushing an already annoying playstyle (annoying because I need to have a secondary killing tool in the part of the game where you really should be focusing on one killing tool) and making it even worse. People already say they hate playing ranged characters because of all the ammo fiddling, now it's going to be even fiddlier?

[galehar]

Being able to win the game by using a single item, a single skill and a couple of keys isn't a design goal.

[Sandman25]

Being able to win the game by using a single item, a single skill and a couple of keys isn't a design goal.

Well, Be does exactly that.

[johlstei]

Be has several nuanced tools and it isn't always obvious when they are a good idea to use. They also operate under a crippling no-magic conduct, which hunters do not, and they should expect to get some beneficial tradeoff for that. Right now that is in the form a set of skills which allows them to be capable even while extremely focused on a small set of skills.

[Sandman25]

Be has several nuanced tools and it isn't always obvious when they are a good idea to use. They also operate under a crippling no-magic conduct, which hunters do not, and they should expect to get some beneficial tradeoff for that. Right now that is in the form a set of skills which allows them to be capable even while extremely focused on a small set of skills.

Does it mean you agree with me that hunters usually train more skills than berserkers do? If berserkers are allowed to win training a single weapon skill, why hunters are not?

Edit. Oh, yes, that's because ranged is OP. I have 21 wins but I cannot win with CeHu, that's a sure sign of OP

[duvessa]

I never train a melee weapon skill on a ranged combat character. Just use a 0 skill dagger of elec. You can probably use your launcher against more dangerous enemies than Be uses its melee weapon against, if we're still pretending that Be never uses ranged combat.

But both Be and "pure" Hu generally pick up new weapons/launchers, armour, jewellery, scrolls, potions, wands, and food, as well as perhaps rods and miscellaneous items, and even with Trog they usually train fighting and some combination of armour and dodging. So I'm not really sure what galehar is trying to say at all, I'm pretty sure he and most other people in this thread need to try actually playing a ranged combat character past Lair.

Spoiler: show

Edit. Oh, yes, that's because ranged is OP. I have 21 wins but I cannot win with CeHu, that's a sure sign of OP

If you seriously can't win a centaur then there is something seriously wrong with your play. But since you decided to multiply your number of wins by 525% in the interest of making your point, that isn't surprising.

[damiac]

...I'm not really sure what galehar is trying to say at all, I'm pretty sure he and most other people in this thread need to try actually playing a ranged combat character past Lair...

That's how I feel... or I'm just missing something... because my ranged isn't the OP broken mess that this thread seems to indicate.

Spoiler: show

Edit. Oh, yes, that's because ranged is OP. I have 21 wins but I cannot win with CeHu, that's a sure sign of OP

If you seriously can't win a centaur then there is something seriously wrong with your play. But since you decided to multiply your number of wins by 525% in the interest of making your point, that isn't surprising.

Come on. Your link is showing Sandman having played 12 games of crawl.... ever? Obviously he must play offline sometimes. I've got wins, but if you look me up on CAO, you'll see 0 games played. But I guess you know a little something about exaggerating to make your point

Edit:

Kids, play nicely.

Ohh, you want some too eh?

[Sandman25]

Spoiler: show

But since you decided to multiply your number of wins by 525% in the interest of making your point, that isn't surprising.

Do you want me to provide links to most of those 21 wins in YAVP forum? Some people play offline, especially if they have "Preferred Version:offline tiles" in their profile.

Edit. Now I am sure you are minmay indeed

[damiac]

Spoiler: show

We just nuked minmay with little winky guys.
Take that punk!
Anyone else want a piece of this?

[njvack]

Kids, play nicely.