Bullseye.

[dck]

It's recently been changed from a buckler to a large shield and I'd like to ask why. As a buckler it had some appeal to small races with huge EV like spriggans who didn't mind dropping their EV from 50 to 45 for quite a lot more SH than your typical buckler. Of course it was still worse than any buckler of resistance and protection, but it was worth using in some situations.
Now I can't think of anyone who'd want to use it ever, since large shields demand tons more of training and the races which use them often don't want to give up EV for a shield with slightly better SH and nothing more.

[MoogleDan]

Pretty sure it changed from a shield to a large shield, not a buckler to a large, but the point still stands.

[dck]

Then what has ever been the point of the thing to begin with?

[MoogleDan]

A practical demonstration of why EV is better than SH in most scenarios?

[galehar]

If you assume something in crawl has a point you're likely to be wrong a lot of the time

What about swords?

[MoogleDan]

I know when this came up before, the response I got from dpeg was that not all unrands are supposed to be useful to everyone, but they should be useful to SOMEONE (too lazy to go back and get the quote). I'm perfectly fine with that philosophy; not everything has to be a pile of resistances and buffs and magical flowers, but the question remains: who would really find this artifact all that appealing? Am I really, really underestimating the value of a SH score of 60 vs. a SH of 45? It just seems very excessive in a less than crucial direction, like saying something has rPois+++, and with a handicap that, while thematically making perfect sense, just makes me question the notion of using this on anything. Honestly, I'd say dck's proposal of a buckler with these exact same features would be significantly more desirable, and the buckler at least has the right shape for it : P

[Mankeli]

Bullseye should still be merged with Shield of the Gong IMO.

[dck]

For some reason I'd never noticed it was a shield and not a buckler (and I literally just finished a game with bullseye in it) because as a buckler it makes sense for it to exist.
As a regular shield it doesn't, and as a large shield it doesn't even more.
So it'd be cool if it was a buckler instead of floor junk I guess.

[Mankeli]

For some reason I'd never noticed it was a shield and not a buckler (and I literally just finished a game with bullseye in it) because as a buckler it makes sense for it to exist.
As a regular shield it doesn't, and as a large shield it doesn't even more.
So it'd be cool if it was a buckler instead of floor junk I guess.

Well, as you yourself explained in your OP, you probably wouldn't have wanted to use it in the buckler form in the first place. So just changing it back between different shield types is not an answer imho. I'm not an expert in spriggans (not my favourite) but buckler brands that I'd have probably used over Bullseye buckler were resistance, protection, poison resistance in snake/spider or even swamp and because spriggans have limited slots fire resistance and cold resistance too. That doesn't leave much room to use the original Bullseye. And for a normal sized/larger species I'd just use a larger shield if wanted the extra SH.

[njvack]

Bullseye should still be merged with Shield of the Gong IMO.

Shield of the Bong?

[and into]

Bullseye should still be merged with Shield of the Gong IMO.

Shield of the Bong?

Only if pizza slices are added back into the game.

That doesn't leave much room to use the original Bullseye. And for a normal sized/larger species I'd just use a larger shield if wanted the extra SH.

Buckler doesn't require a lot of hassle to use... I could see Halflings and the like, maybe Kobolds using it, in addition to Spriggans, if Bullseye were a buckler. So dck's (initially unintentional) proposal to change Bullseye to buckler is not bad for a quick fix. Won't be a power item like hat of the alchemist or the like, obviously, but still okay. Eventually merging with shield of the gong can still be discussed and considered, but in the meantime, I too am a little confused about what changing Bullseye into a large shield was aiming to accomplish. If the goal there was to make it potentially more usable, they bumped it in the wrong direction.

[dck]

@Mankeli: I didn't mind it when I thought it was a buckler because then someone could find it and have some use for it. I don't expect or even want it to be something actually good like the shield of resistance, I just want it to be not complete arse, and a +15 large shield of -5 EV is complete arse and worse than a normal large shield which are already pretty bad.
And as and into says it wouldn't really be a Sp only thing, being a buckler lots of people can consider using it. They probably shouldn't if their EV isn't good, but the buckler offers the SH of a shield for almost no skill investment at the price of no ego and -5 EV. That is an interesting proposition for some characters, it makes the item fun I think.

[spudwalt]

I'd consider using Bullseye if it was a buckler, especially if I was playing a character who didn't want to devote much to Shields.

[ackack]

@Mankeli: I didn't mind it when I thought it was a buckler because then someone could find it and have some use for it. I don't expect or even want it to be something actually good like the shield of resistance, I just want it to be not complete arse, and a +15 large shield of -5 EV is complete arse and worse than a normal large shield which are already pretty bad.
And as and into says it wouldn't really be a Sp only thing, being a buckler lots of people can consider using it. They probably shouldn't if their EV isn't good, but the buckler offers the SH of a shield for almost no skill investment at the price of no ego and -5 EV. That is an interesting proposition for some characters, it makes the item fun I think.

Yep. I totally agree that shield->buckler is a more interesting change than shield->large shield.