Synergistic Mutations

[Daggtex]

Recently I've seen a few threads pop up about Demonspawn mutations. One thing I think is kind of missing from the mutations (and this could apply to mutations in general, not just Demonspawn) is strong synergy, on the level of "you exude baking soda" + "you exude vinegar" = "you explode". Basically, mutations that are pretty average until put together and create some powerful new effect. These could make mutation roulette more interesting, prompting people to want to try to finish a set of mutations to get the extra bonus, as well as provide a new way to vary mutations for Demonspawn.

Some example ideas:
emitting noxious gas + occasionally spark = occasionally create explosions
metallic scales + occasionally spark = occasionally electrify weapon
spines + poison spit = poison spines
shoutitis + fire breathing = occasionally create infernos
fast metabolism + poison spit = metal digestion

[reaver]

Some example ideas:
emitting noxious gas + occasionally spark = occasionally create explosions
metallic scales + occasionally spark = occasionally electrify weapon
spines + poison spit = poison spines
shoutitis + fire breathing = occasionally create infernos
fast metabolism + poison spit = metal digestion

I don't quite get this. I'd call those examples "random special cases" rather than "synergy" because the beneficial interaction is special cased rather than emerging naturally from the rules of the game. From this definition, plenty of Ds mutations have synergy, such as Powered by Death and Augmentation or Spiny and Passive Freeze. I think this sort of synergy is much better than special cases, and there isn't anything else in the game which is special cased with this sort of "set bonus."

[Daggtex]

@reaver: The point was that creating enough of these "special cases" would add a new aspect to mutation, beyond the natural synergy of some mutations. It could create interesting scenarios in "I just mutated <bad mutation>; maybe I can mutate myself further to turn it into something pretty good." Most bad mutations are just bad, and other mutations could be unrelated to your playstyle, but this could make some people actually still want to get them, whereas natural synergy as you describe really just comes from good mutations that happen to sit well together. With this new synergy, it could become: Do I get rid of bad things that come up or play mutation roulette to get a big payoff?

I mention Ds just because they are the mutation kings, so perhaps a new aspect to their mutation (to give even more variety) would be to gaurentee a "special case" is certain situations. Again, there has been some recent buzz about adding some new stuff to them, and this is my 2 cents.

And yes, there are no set bonuses in the game yet. Armour set bonuses don't often make sense, but mutation set bonuses certainly do (It's what happens in evolution, after all.) so why not add them? I don't see it as against Crawl philosophy (in fact, I'd think it would be with it if it encourages choice), but maybe I'm misinterpreting.

[reaver]

It could create interesting scenarios in "I just mutated <bad mutation>; maybe I can mutate myself further to turn it into something pretty good." ....With this new synergy, it could become: Do I get rid of bad things that come up or play mutation roulette to get a big payoff? .....I don't see it as against Crawl philosophy (in fact, I'd think it would be with it if it encourages choice), but maybe I'm misinterpreting.

On your first point, I think the choice of "roulette or curing" is just something the current mutation system isn't built for. The liabilities of bad mutations vastly outweigh the buffs of good mutations, so unless you're giving players something like +27 slaying or MR(Immune) as compensation, it would never be a good idea to do this.

This proposal does violate Crawl philosophy, because special cased interactions are spoiler bonanza. How would you communicate to the player that if you get a new mutation to go with your current one it'll do something special? I also think it would be at least slightly scummy, because you'd have to go through the tedious roulette actions, carefully gather the potions of mutations distributed throughout the dungeon, and then look at your mutation messages after each gulp to determine if you want to stop. If it was powerful enough to have a decent effect, player might farm mutagenic clouds or Malmutate users for mutations with special interactions with the ones they already have.

Finally, it's just too much work for too little gain. Getting a Tier 3 bad mutation is already an extremely rare event: I doubt specific combinations of mutations would be much more common.

[Daggtex]

Ok. Thanks for taking the time to explain