Sethygir: Sea God and Water Addition

[bcadren]

So, I guess the idea is that Unarmed Combat specialists will be the ones who will benefit the most from the various form changes? A lot of them are kinda UC-based, though I guess other followers will still get to use their weapons in the mer-forms.

The idea is; only the monstrous form is purely so; the Tiny forms have their spell school help and ranged attacks; the Human-Sized similar. The Huge act a lot like Dragon/Statue for Mid-Late Game UC specialists; but there's no reason just because you've unlocked the most powerful form that you couldn't primarily use the Electric Eel's abilities to spam the hell out of some late game Chain Lightning.

Selective Stasis (when entering a teleport trap, you may choose to teleport or not, etc. Particularly useful in the Abyss)

Wouldn't that basically be the control teleport intrinsic? It should probably be blocked in areas with -cTele, like branch ends and the Abyss.

It's meant to be weaker than cTele so it's reasonable to have everywhere. Like Snake branch end, get hit by Teleport Other from a Guardian Snake; you get the option to cancel the teleport, but you don't get Controlled Teleport. Similarly in the Abyss, you can resist being pulled to another section of the Abyss unexpectedly. Perhaps the cTele intrinsic active anywhere that it can be would be more reasonable though.

In practicality it would be like:
"You are pulled to another section of the Abyss."

is replaced with:
"You feel unstable. Teleport? Y/N"
"You absorb the Translocational Energy. You are contaminated with residual magic."

The lionfish form should probably have a venom-branded UC attack.

For the kraken form, eating your foes whole should probably provide tons of satiation (i.e. about the same as if you'd butchered it and eaten every chunk, maybe more since you're eating the skeleton, too). You could balance it out by making it give you a trollish metabolism. Should it also give you the gourmand intrinsic? Also, would spriggans be able to eat corpses in kraken form?

Does the hydra form regain HP/grow 2 more heads when attacked by edged weaponry? You could then have an upper limit based on Invocations or something. Flaming edged weapons would permanently remove heads, insta-killing you when you hit 0. I know Crawl tends to avoid insta-kills, but really, the only way that would happen is through player stupidity, since these forms are cancellable, right? (Mental note: do not fight fire giants in hydra form.)

Charydis [The Whirlpool Monster]

It's spelled 'Charybdis', IIRC. Also, do you eat slain enemies' equipment, too, or just their bodies? (see also above note regarding kraken form)

I do like the idea of having multiple possible combinations of forms (the sea is constantly changing and whatnot), but this looks like it'd require a *lot* of coding.

Lionfish: I think the spikes/retaliatory with Venom is enough.
Spriggans: I'm not sure? I would ask if any of the existing forms change metabolism like that.
Gourmand Intrinsic: Yes. Course you still can't eat Rotting branded corpses (Vampire Mosquitoes, Bog Bodies, etc.)
Fast Metabolism: Unsure. Potential major risk in corpseless branches (Hells especially).
Hydra: Should act as much like an enemy hydra as feasible, so sounds good.
Charybdis: You're right I typoed.
Equipment Eating: Probably most reasonable to get a message like "You spit up the bits you couldn't digest." Producing some of the equipment back (large metal objects (swords, shields, plate armor etc.), always; Artifacts, always; wooden objects (bucklers, spears, LSC's), sometimes; small metal objects, sometimes (daggers, rings, necklaces); skeletons, rarely; Leather/Cloth armor, Never)

[JARG]

bcadren: The idea to have multiple form options on different playthroughs is pretty solid. The only issue I see is that the randomness itself makes it a very unattractive god unless the form options are presented up-front(at the altar or something).

Human-size forms: I like the options other than straight merfolk. Personally not a fan though(slaying bonus! oh but for throwing only...). I like the submerge idea.

The hydra... Does it benefit from enhanced regen? And is the upper limit to the headcount 27, or is it just 20 like normal hydras? "Each head does [6 + UC/3 + STR/3] in bite damage." Where you decide to put the headcount significantly affects the damage output potential. Just with UC 18, STR 21, and 8 heads, it has a damage potential of 152 damage... And do these heads have the ability to attack multiple enemies or cleave like an axe?

And do the aquatic "Dragon-size" forms spawn with more than one tile of water? Or do they have a tile of water that moves with them maybe?

Additionally I don't know about the choice to make it UC dependent, it makes it even more niche. Most of the forms, especially if you don't get the one you want, seem either too niche (aww man, got the lionfish, but I'm an air elementalist this playthrough...) or out of place : "Charybdis" (I see no reason to ever select this over the hydra at the suggested values) //compare 27 STR 27 UC charybdis damage (15+9+27) of 51 with hydra's 21 STR 18 UC at 4 heads damage (6+6+7) (times four) of 76... without the aquatic limitation, or slow movement

That said, I like the variation and I do think the issues can be addressed. (for instance make Charybdis's LOS all water or give him an ability to that effect(in some stories water is also expelled), make whirlpool passively activate, etc...)



My major concern is that the lack of consistency for a god is both an appealing and unattractive proposition. For Jivya, Nemlex, or Xom the randomness is acceptable because it is not "fixed", if for instance, you knew you would only be getting 2-3 of the possible decks Nemlex could gift, he might become less desirable(depending on if those were the decks you wanted). I think it would be optimum to work in some level of randomness/surprise as well as some degree of consistency(if an octopode would always get kraken form so as to be able to use all its rings for instance). Another suggestion I might make would be have the form change happen before the form you change to is finalized. This would make it so you could at least determine whether you would prefer an aquatic(by changing in water) or amphibious(by changing on land) form and associate other positives and negatives.

[and into]

Okay, necroing from a really long way back. While giving some feedback for a couple of different gods, I had some new ideas for Sethygir that might address some of the problems endemic to a god that gives advantages based on watery terrain, while providing a somewhat (I hope) more interesting conduct, using dpeg's idea of slower movement when away from water.

The following attempts to address the problem of kiting enemies to water in two ways:
1.) You have slower movement when away from the water. This makes kiting much less optimal most of the time.
2.) You do not get any passive benefits (aside from your *normal* movement speed) while near water. Rather, the strength of the activated transmutation abilities that Sethygir gives you scales up based on the amount water around you (instead of scaling up with piety or invocations skill). However, using those skills, and thus really taking advantage of watery terrain, also costs piety. This gives a hard cap on how much of a meaningful advantage you could gain by leading enemies to water before fighting them.

The idea is not for you to kite, but instead you have to use the terrain to your advantage thoughtfully, making interesting decisions about how to explore the dungeon and approach specific fights based on the water-layout that generated on a given. That would be very cool, I think, and most of the changes you'll see below are geared toward that goal.

So here would be my revised proposal for this god:


Sethygir the Sunken

The patron deity of an ancient civilization that now lies in watery ruin, Sethygir the Sunken yearns to draw as many domains as possible into his demersal realm. Sethygir bestows the strength of the ocean upon his devotees, who may command the mighty winds of the sea and polymorph fluidly between various forms of aquatic life. However, be warned that worshiping Sethygir links one’s essence to the water—for better and for worse. The strength of your divine transmutations is directly proportional to the amount of water near you, but you will find movement awkward and slow should you venture too far from the sea.


Appreciates: Killing landlubbers
Depreciates: Servants who are lax in their duties (Piety decays over time)



"Rafter of Sethygir"
Piety ------
Passive: You can swim gracefully through shallow and deep water without penalty.
[You can stash things in deep water and retrieve them, etc. Does not scale up with piety, just something that “turns on” for as long as you worship Sethygir]
Passive: Your energy ebbs, making movement difficult, whenever you stray too far from the sea. [When not in LOS of water, you get a movement penalty—note, the movement penalty greatly diminishes any kiting ability. You have to use the generated terrain to your advantage, rather than draw enemies back to it repetitiously.]
Passive: Sethygir initiates monsoon season.
[Scales up with piety. More water tends to spawn; see note below on how I’d imagine this could work in an interesting way.]


"Seafarer"
Piety *-----
Active ability: Breath of the Sea. Piety cost: 0; Food cost: Small; Breath.
Breath attack with good damage and knockback component; breath timer. Damage scales with character level. At piety *** upgrades to a cone-based attack like dazzling spray with better damage and greater knockback.
Passive ability: Sense water. You know the location of any water on your current level. You get no information about what the dungeon around the water looks like, what monsters are in/around it, etc.; you just have the location of water marked at all times on the mini map, whether you have seen it or not.


"Boatswain"
Piety **----
Active Ability: Form of Eel (Food, small up-front piety cost, does not time out unless ended through abilities menu, drains piety while transmuted)
Turn into electric eel. If not in water, Sethygir will provide a one-tile pool of shallow water beneath you, if necessary. Your breath attack turns into an electric bolt; while in this form, your breath cooldown is greatly reduced. Movement restricted to water while in this form. Can temporarily “submerge” (equivalent to invisibility, but you can’t attack while in this form).

The strength of this and all other Sethygir transmutations is directly proportional to the amount of water in LOS. (See note about these transmutations below.)


"Deck Cadet"
Piety ***---
Active Ability: Form of Sea Nymph (Food, medium piety cost, does not time out unless ended through abilities menu, constant piety drain while active)
Turn into a Sea Nymph, which is very similar to Merfolk (amphibious), except with an even stronger connection to water. You retain your “breath of the sea” ability while in this form. As a sea nymph you get full armor slots while keeping all non-equipment-related intrinsic traits of your own race as well. When you go into this form for the first time, anything you equip that cannot be worn in your normal form will be stored on Sethygir's behalf in Davy Jones' Locker, and will instantaneously reequip should you re-enter this form. In addition, this form can draw rejuvenating strength from the sea: As a sea nymph you enjoy a bonus to HP and MP regeneration proportional to the amount of water around you. However, your heightened connection to water works both ways: The movement penalty when outside of LOS of water is also increased for sea nymphs.


"Chief Mate"
Piety ****--
No additional abilities.


"Captain"
Piety *****-
Active Ability: Kraken Form (Food cost, piety cost: Very high)
Sethygir will provide a four-tile pool of water to accommodate your form, if necessary. Strength of transmutation is proportional to amount of water in LOS. Your breath ability becomes “Ink Cloud,” which creates a special fog that you can see through, but which inflicts blindness upon your enemies. The breath cooldown for ink cloud is longer than usual, however.


"Commodore"
Piety ******
Active Ability: High Tide (Food cost; piety cost: Extremely high)
Sethygir steels his power to flood the level, providing additional sudden water spawns throughout the area. A level can be flooded only once. Sethygir cannot flood the abyss.


Notes:

1.) How Sethygir’s passive “increase water spawn rate” ability could work while still being interesting would be for it to tend to generate a small “river” on levels. At higher piety the river won’t be much bigger, but will have a couple of tributaries and a few other puddles added elsewhere. Even at high piety, traveling too far from the river would be very dangerous. The point here is to completely alter how people approach exploring the dungeon, without making it unplayable if you need to explore the dungeon in the usual way. The ****** ability also means that if you get a bad layout on a branch end, etc., that is too risky to brute force and which you can’t afford to by-pass, you still have one (albeit very expensive) option available.

2.) All of these divine transmutations do not time out; they end only when you (a) "End Transformation" to revert, or when you enter a new form. When in one of Sethygir's forms, however, there is a constant piety drain that accrues while doing any action except resting. For each transmutation, the “spell power” that determines the strength of the form you enter scales up with water in LOS. While in the form of a sea nymph, you mostly retain your own characteristics, but enjoy bonus HP/MP regen the more water you are around—however, at the cost of a steeper conduct when away from water. Eel form would be like “aquatic spider form” in terms of stats—most armor melds, you don’t have as much HP, but you get a bonus to EV. The amount of that EV bonus, as well as your offensive capabilities (melee and bolt attack) scale up based on the water that is around you. In addition, eel form can only move through water—you have to revert or transmute to sea nymph to go on land. Kraken form, as I imagine it, would have high HP and enormous offensive capabilities, but low defenses—a bit like dragon form. When in Kraken form you just spawn friendly tentacles that fight dudes for you automatically. The number of tentacles you spawn (and rate at which they spawn) as well as the base damage of your melee attack scales up with the amount of water around you.

3.) This would all be "behind the scenes," but the piety level at which you can *enter* a certain aquatic form and the minimum piety level at which you can *stay* in said form need to be "staggered" with the latter smaller than the former. This is just to prevent situations in which someone enters a form, only to have the up-front piety cost suddenly disable use of that form, which would be (needless to say) extremely frustrating and bad interface.

[KennySheep]

Relying heavily on a river being added to each map would be very strange in a lot of places other than the main dungeon. It would be hard to imagine Dis with a nice river though it.

[and into]

Relying heavily on a river being added to each map would be very strange in a lot of places other than the main dungeon. It would be hard to imagine Dis with a nice river though it.

The water addition would still be randomized; I'm not thinking that Sethygir would give you the Mississippi River on every level. Rather, there would be more water generated on average, and it would tend to create a "line" across a level. Certain areas (the Hells and Vaults in particular) could screw with this kind of water generation and make things more difficult for devotees of Sethygir. I think "randomized but within certain parameters and trends" would be the way to go. I think it is fine for certain floors to be made more difficult and others easier based on how lucky you get with "water spawns." You are more reliant upon certain features of the terrain—for good or for ill. That's part of the intended effect of worshiping this god. As a player, you have to adapt to that every time you hit > on a staircase down. I think that is very thematic for a god of the seas; the currents can take you swiftly to your destination—or they can run you aground on a reef.

[1010011010]

I'm not convinced that slow movement is a great idea since Chei already does this passive effect, If it was a general slow status it might be enough differentiation, but I wouldn't want to be playing character of Seth and think I'm playing Chei.

The forms sound mostly fine but what happens when you eel form on a set of stairs or flying over lava. Kraken form sounds like it needs better control over the tentacles, maybe an ability spawn tentacles where you target a monster then a tentacle spawns and moves towards the monster. At the moment it seems like there's not much to do while in kraken form since the tentacles are on auto pilot.

[spudwalt]

Nice to see people are still thinking about this one. Here's some more thoughts of my own:

Since Sea Nymphs get a regen boost while in water, should they heal slower away from water?

Seems like a lot of people think slow movement steps on Cheibriados's toes, though you don't become hideously slow like when you worship Chei; you can still manage to scramble away from things in a pinch. We're thinking a movement penalty similar to nagas, right? That's generally enough to be able to back away to a chokepoint.
In any case, what other maluses besides slowness can people think of that could work to weaken you away from water, but not make everything a game of "hey, let's go fight in that puddle waaaay back thataways"?

Having Kraken Form's tentacles as seperate entities helps solve the issue for worshipers who don't use Unarmed Combat, I think. Would Unarmed Combat be able to contribute to their effectiveness at all? I imagine you'd still get a bite attack with your main body which would be entirely dependent on your UC skill, but you'd have your tentacles as a backup if your main method of killinating things is Axes or what have you. Even then, I played around with 0 UC Dragon Form in Wizard Mode for a bit, and I murdered a bunch of stuff relatively easily, so the whole "unskilled but strong" thing can be made to work in a pinch.

Then there's the whole thing with controlling your tentacles as mentioned by 1010011010; what if you want your tentacles to focus on the boggart hiding in the corner rather than the giants he's spamming you with? I'd say the idea of some sort of targetable tentacle attack would be usable; kinda like a Summon spell, I guess, though I never play Summoners, so I don't know much about how those mechanics work.

What does happen when you polymorph when flying? Do you immediately dive into water? How does Seth feel about flight, anyhoo?

[headcrab0803]

tweaking the rng to generate more river is equivalent to tweaking the rng to generate more fruits when you worship fedhas which i think, is bad.
also, im not sure how kraken form as the last ability is any interesting. basically youre becoming a giant octopus who murders dudes no matter what you were before whether you were a monster- slaughtering badass monk or a master blaster
maybe this kraken form thingy can go under a transmutation god?( tbh i dont think transmutations god is any interesting

[Kate]

Dungeon generation shouldn't depend on the player. Acquirement items in vaults are the only place this happens as far as I'm aware (these are okay in some rare places but even those shouldn't be acquirement-based the vast majority of the time), and messing with terrain generation is far more intrusive than that.

[and into]

tweaking the rng to generate more river is equivalent to tweaking the rng to generate more fruits when you worship fedhas which i think, is bad.
also, im not sure how kraken form as the last ability is any interesting. basically youre becoming a giant octopus who murders dudes no matter what you were before whether you were a monster- slaughtering badass monk or a master blaster
maybe this kraken form thingy can go under a transmutation god?( tbh i dont think transmutations god is any interesting

I don't think that's an appropriate analogy. Fruit you can carry around and a big part of the interest in playing Fedhas is trying to determine how and when it is best to use the fruit that you find. Fedhas works because fruit is limited. The goal with Sethygir (as I see it) is to make you rethink how you explore the dungeon and interact with its terrain. Whether that is too trivial or too strong will depend on the actual numbers I think, but if Sethygir didn't provide some means to increase how much water you have around you, then that whole aspect of the god is lost. (And much of the point to adding him as a god—I agree that transmutations alone aren't enough.)

As for kraken form I was thinking its trade-offs would be similar to dragonform, which is powerful but not overpowered. You get huge HP and damage, but at the cost of very low EV and AC. If you use it foolishly you will get killed despite the big HP pool.

Dungeon generation shouldn't depend on the player. Acquirement items in vaults are the only place this happens as far as I'm aware (these are okay in some rare places but even those shouldn't be acquirement-based the vast majority of the time), and messing with terrain generation is far more intrusive than that.

I'm not entirely sure I agree, I think it depends on the case. Is the worry here that a god should not alter things in the dungeon permanently? If so I think that could potentially be offset through penance for leaving Sethygir. If it is still felt to be a big problem you could have Sethygir flood the level temporarily, but water levels return to normal (evaporate) over time, which also puts a bit of a timer that might be interesting—if you spend too much time clearing a level, you start to lose your ability to turn the terrain to your advantage. I certainly haven't proposed that Sethygir turns every floor into another level of Swamp, I agree that would be terrible for a very large number of reasons.

[and into]

Double-necroing. This thread just won't die.

Sethygir the Sunken

The patron deity of an ancient civilization that now lies in watery ruin, Sethygir the Sunken yearns to draw as many domains as possible into his demersal realm. Sethygir bestows the strength and versatility of the waters upon his devotees, who may command the mighty powers of the sea and polymorph fluidly amongst various forms of aquatic life. Worshiping Sethygir liquidates your MP, melding both health and magic into a single source of vital essence, and expands your essence pool as you gain piety.

Appreciates:
+ Killing landlubbers

Depreciates:
+ Servants who are lax in their duties (Piety decays over time)

Upon joining, your MP bar goes away and your health becomes a purple essence bar (EP). Your MP is *not* added to your HP, but Sethygir does give a boost to your max essence based on piety. Any abilities that normally take MP draw it from EP instead at a 1:1 ratio.

MP channeling and crystal ball of energy become unusable, and MP drain attacks have no effect on EP. Ring of magical power has no effect, but ring of vitality increases EP by 15. Curing and heal wounds affects EP as it would HP, and !magic restores your EP as well. Borgnjor’s Revivification cannot be used. For all other purposes EP counts as HP and you have no magic bar.

Sethygir's abilities use Invocations, but all of them also involve the water tiles that are currently in LOS.

  Code:

Upon Joining

Rafter of Sethygir
Piety ------
Passive: Water-born. You can swim gracefully through shallow and deep water without penalty. You are immune to steam and engulf. You can sense all water tiles on the map. (You passively map all water tiles; you get no information about what is inside the water or around it, just where the water is.)
Passive: Aqua Vitae. You no longer have an MP bar. Your HP becomes essence (EP) from which both magic and physical damage are drawn. MP channeling and crystal ball of energy become unusable, and MP drain attacks have no effect on you. You get a bonus to max EP based on piety. Something like  [(piety/8) + 5] seems about right.)

"Seafarer"
Piety *-----
Passive: Monsoon season. Temporary flooded squares (shallow water; at higher piety, deep water can be generated) spawn around you passively, but only while actively exploring new territory. Scales up with piety. These squares eventually time out; when outside of LOS they time out *very* quickly.
Active Ability: Form of Eel. Food, piety cost: Small; costs 3 EP. Can only be used while in water. Turn into an electric eel. Movement restricted to water while in this form. Can temporarily “submerge” (equivalent to invisibility, except that you can’t attack while submerged). Can shoot bolts of electricity for 2 EP a pop. Your highest weapon/fighting skill is used to “count” as unarmed combat for purposes of Eel form melee damage, which uses same formula as spider form but without poison branded attack. Low failure rate at 3 or 4 Invocations. Damage of electric bolts scales up with Invocations.

"Boatswain"
Piety **----
Active Ability: Drown. Food cost, piety cost: Small; costs 5 EP. Silent. Hex-like, projectile targeted. Range 8. Checks targets HD. Chance to hit scales up with Invocations skill. Only works on breathing targets. If you succeed, will remove water tiles in LOS at random and fill the target's lungs with water. Deals considerable "asphyxiation" damage per turn and afflicts target with Engulf status, preventing them from speaking. Length and damage scale up to max depending on how much water is drained from your surroundings. Low failure rate at 6 or 7 Invocations.

"Deck Cadet"
Piety ***---
Active Ability: Form of Sea Nymph. Food, piety cost: Moderate; costs 6 EP. Does not time out unless ended through abilities menu. However, a much increased piety decay while active. Turn into a Sea Nymph, an amphibious humanoid form. You get weapon and full armor slots while keeping all non-equipment-related intrinsic traits of your own race as well. When you go into this form for the first time, anything you equip that cannot be worn in your normal form will be stored by Sethygir on your behalf in Davy Jones' Locker, and will instantaneously reequip should you re-enter this form. While in Sea Nymph form you gain the Aqualung ability (small hunger cost), which gives +Regen of your EP but dehydrates water tiles in LOS as your EP is restored over time in this way. Low failure rate at 7 or 8 Invocations.

"Chief Mate"
Piety ****--
Active Ability: Boil. Food, piety cost: High; costs 5 EP. Once activated, lasts multiple turns during which you can do other stuff (cf. recall or recite). All water in LOS becomes hot. Generates steam over water tiles. If a water tile has been in LOS for at least two turns, the water may evaporate completely, pouring out numerous steam clouds to surrounding tiles, dealing steam damage to enemies and blocking LOS. Low failure rate at 10 or 11 Invocations.

"Captain"
Piety *****-
Active Ability: Kraken Form. Food, piety cost: Very high; costs 9 EP. You must have four tiles open space around you in order to enter Kraken Form. All water in LOS disappears and a large pool is created under you, pushing any adjacent enemies back. You become a Kraken. While in this form you get access to "Ink Cloud" (food cost, 6 EP) which creates a special fog that you can see through, but which inflicts blindness upon your enemies; carries a very long breath cooldown, additionally. You spawn tentacles that operate as aggressive allies that attack enemies in LOS. Your damage for melee is calculated with your highest weapon/fighting skill being used in place of Unarmed Combat. You get a large bonus to EP, but your AC and EV are heavily penalized, much like Dragon Form. Low failure rate at 15 or 16 Invocations.

"Commodore"
Piety ******
No new abilities.


Added this version to dev wiki: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:god:propose:water_god

[TeshiAlair]

I'm not a huge fan of having three separate forms, and all three seem fiddly. I'd just make the eel ability summon eels, and Aqualung a standalone. The armour juggling just feels weird to me.

[bcadren]

Amazing that a god proposal that started as "I really want water magic to be a player thing." (mostly referring to primal wave; which players later got in the phial of floods object, which is probably as close as we'll ever get to that) ended up in it's current format. Also, this was the very first thing I ever suggested, wow. lol

That said; two things on the current version.

(1) I'm not sure if it should be a temple god,but guaranteeing a Shoals/Swamp altar in a mini 'sunken temple' should be intended.
(2) I see no reason that the water needs to quickly dry up. Rain effects (Air Miscasts, Robe of Clouds, Fedhas Rain invocation) are all permanents, it's just the rain clouds that are temporary. Spawning rainclouds during autoexplore [blocks placement of other clouds, creates shallow water or turns shallow into deep then dissappears. A process of about 4 turns.

Also, I'm not certain of this, but I'm fairly sure as it is currently coded rDrown is immunity to engulf and curare/asphyx damage in one resist; not sure if one can exist without the other.

Sea Nymph is interesting, yet strange. I mean for most races; the aqualung is the only thing added. For ones with extreme equipment restrictions...going from felid to humanoid is a huge bonus to the race; BUT you're essentially just playing a frail human at that point. Be better if it was like the enemy water nymphs (passive halo of water while in form)...at least it would give greater reason to take/stay in the form for races without the equipment problems.

[Otherwise; no real problems; though Steam damage is really minimal (like 0-11 per turn); perhaps conjure-flame level damage to things currently in the water before spreading steam would be more appropriate. Placing steam everywhere would counter Lom Lobon's Tornado and Reaver's Freezing clouds though (if there is steam everywhere; the clouds the spells would spawn can't place)].

[spudwalt]

Sounds like the EP conversion would hurt more for frail races than robust ones, though at least you get a boost to your max EP depending on your piety, so maybe that would help out the deep elves and felids and whatnot.

Also, I suggest "Admiral" for the max-piety title.