Food and Gh

[Sandman25]

Is it possible to display nutrition at Shift-A screen when playing Ghoul? It is technically possible for player to calculate the nutrition but it would take much time and be boring. The idea is that you don't want to waste chunks by eating them when you have 6999 nutrition.
Another suggestion is to put a warning (muted by default) when chunks are about to completely rot away so Gh could eat them even when not hungry. Again, it is technically possible for player to calculate the moment.

[rebthor]

While not terrible ideas, they seem to have little benefit for non-trivial amounts of work. You can already look and see when your character is Full or Satiated. You also get a message when food has rotted.

There is also an overabundance of food in the game for a Ghoul who can eat more types chunks than any other species in the game.

[Sandman25]

While not terrible ideas, they seem to have little benefit for non-trivial amounts of work. You can already look and see when your character is Full or Satiated. You also get a message when food has rotted.

There is also an overabundance of food in the game for a Ghoul who can eat more types chunks than any other species in the game.

Ghoul does not get "Full" status. I quit playing Gh when it rotted from 26 to 17 hp. Partly because I lacked control and could not enjoy the game.

[BlackSheep]

You lacked the ability to chop up and eat everything you saw? Try not to spend so much time optimizing your food consumption and focus on your character development.

[Lasty]

Ghoul does not get "Full" status. I quit playing Gh when it rotted from 26 to 17 hp. Partly because I lacked control and could not enjoy the game.

How on earth did that happen? I've played a fair number of ghouls and never seen anything like that. I assume you know that eating chunks as a ghoul can cure rot, right?

[njvack]

Yeah, the living-branch Gh food game is "make chunks, maybe wait until they rot, eat chunks." Yum-yum!

[Sandman25]

I chopped every corpse, waited for rotting status (of chunks, not myself) sometimes. Maybe I wasn't lucky, I have played Gh just once.

[Sandman25]

I've got the following message

  Code:

Wow! There is something tasty in your inventory. (slot p)


So I guess my second proposal has already been implemented in 0.13 (I've never seen it in 0.12)
Playing Ghost is much easier now.

[BlackSheep]

No, that message has been there for a while.

[rebthor]

Like forever, which is what I put in my first post.

[Sandman25]

I guess I should have played Ghoul more time before coming with the suggestion. Sorry about false alarm

[tasonir]

Like forever, which is what I put in my first post.

Yes you did. Right after the statement that ghouls can see when they are full, which is wrong (Unless this has changed in trunk very recently? someone mentioned changes but I haven't tried ghouls in .13 much). Misinformation is very easy to come by in discussions of crawl...

[Volteccer_Jack]

you can tell your ghoul is full because he has no rot

[tasonir]

you can tell your ghoul is full because he has no rot

This is also not true. It is possible to be "full" (nutrition at or very close to 6999) and still have significant rotting. Ideally if you've been eating steadily it shouldn't happen, but it is possible.

The way to tell if you're full is to ask yourself if you've eaten at least a few chunks in the last 1-2 thousand turns. Which means you have to track it yourself. Which is why having the cap on ghoul nutrition raised to something like 7500 would be nice, as it would let you see that you're full, without really changing that much. That said it would be mostly for convenience, as you are rarely ever hungry on a ghoul outside of extended.

[Volteccer_Jack]

if you have no rot you have no reason to eat and are therefore full

[Igxfl]

The wiki says that "Full" starts at 7001 nutrition. What if the Ghoul cap were moved from 6999 to 7001? It would make almost no difference except you'd get a "Hey, I just maxed my food" message, the way engorged is for most races.

[njvack]

It would make you think about food when playing as ghouls, when it's something you do not need to think about. I don't think the devs picked 6999 by random.

[Sandman25]

It would make you think about food when playing as ghouls, when it's something you do not need to think about. I don't think the devs picked 6999 by random.

I am not sure about it. It can affect decision whether I should sacrifice a corpse to Makleb. At least I experienced some problems with it because I lacked some important information.

[prozacelf]

There is a very simple heuristic to follow here. If you answer "no" to the questions "am I at less than full Hp?" And "am I rotted?" then you sacrifice. If you answer "yes" to either then eat.

[Sandman25]

There is a very simple heuristic to follow here. If you answer "no" to the questions "am I at less than full Hp?" And "am I rotted?" then you sacrifice. If you answer "yes" to either then eat.

I am not sure it is that simple because a single chunk can heal more than 1 point of rot. Sacrificing the corpse and eating next one could be better. But it is even more complicated because I really need a rotting chunk. So I should plan ahead - am I close to "hungry" state when I will rot more often and it will make food more useful? I mean I would prefer to sacrifice everything before I am about 1000 points from hungry status, then I will butcher some chunks and will eat them when they rot (hopefully right before going into hungry status).

[Arrhythmia]

It really is as simple as he makes it out to be because corpses are incredi-fucking-bly common so you can be as wasteful as you like.

[Sandman25]

It really is as simple as he makes it out to be because corpses are incredi-fucking-bly common so you can be as wasteful as you like.

... unless you play a god who likes corpse sacrifices. For example, eating a copse might heal you less than sacrificing it to Makhleb. I am perfectionist in my mind, I always want to play as good as I can.

[Galefury]

Makhleb doesn't heal you on sacrifices, so all is well!

[Arrhythmia]

And the extra piety you might gain from sacrificing a corpse which might trigger his heal on kills later is so frighteningly minuscule that it should never enter into any consideration.

[Sandman25]

Makhleb doesn't heal you on sacrifices, so all is well!

Yes, I know. But chance to heal is based on piety.

[Sandman25]

And the extra piety you might gain from sacrificing a corpse which might trigger his heal on kills later is so frighteningly minuscule that it should never enter into any consideration.

I can only repeat my words: I am perfectionist in my mind, I always want to play as good as I can. If I don't need the corpse as food, why can't I use it to improve my odds of healing?

[njvack]

I can only repeat my words: I am perfectionist in my mind, I always want to play as good as I can. If I don't need the corpse as food, why can't I use it to improve my odds of healing?

You absolutely can. But the energy you spend minmaxing Makhleb piety is ill-spent compared to, say, carefully studying positioning or something. And making the Gh food interface more visually complex (for this slimmest of edge cases) would encourage other people to ill-spend their energy, too.

[BlackSheep]

Spend your time understanding the sacrifice mechanic instead. Then sacrifice the little stuff and chop up the big stuff that yields multiple chunks.

[MoogleDan]

This is one of many bits of information that is likely to remain part of a black box. While I can understand wanting to maximize sacrifices (playing Okawaru for too long will do that to ya), in this case you'll want to keep several chunks on hand more often than not. It's like having little mini-potions of heal wounds, and due to the fact that you can't see around corners, you never know exactly when you'll need more of those. The fact that they're perishable does not change the fact that having them on hand is useful. Also, ghouls don't NEED to be at full; the only penalty for hitting hungry is that you need to eat some chunks to remedy it. A perfectly played ghoul player would likely never hit 6999 unless he butchered something that delivered up far more chunks than expected. Besides, Makhleb piety rises absurdly quick, and only really falls quickly if you start abusing his greater destruction beam. It really is a god that you can safely be lazy about.

[Sandman25]

Spend your time understanding the sacrifice mechanic instead. Then sacrifice the little stuff and chop up the big stuff that yields multiple chunks.

Yes, I sacrifice rats and butcher elephants usually.

[Sandman25]

This is one of many bits of information that is likely to remain part of a black box. While I can understand wanting to maximize sacrifices (playing Okawaru for too long will do that to ya), in this case you'll want to keep several chunks on hand more often than not. It's like having little mini-potions of heal wounds, and due to the fact that you can't see around corners, you never know exactly when you'll need more of those. The fact that they're perishable does not change the fact that having them on hand is useful. Also, ghouls don't NEED to be at full; the only penalty for hitting hungry is that you need to eat some chunks to remedy it. A perfectly played ghoul player would likely never hit 6999 unless he butchered something that delivered up far more chunks than expected. Besides, Makhleb piety rises absurdly quick, and only really falls quickly if you start abusing his greater destruction beam. It really is a god that you can safely be lazy about.

Yes, this is a black box. I hate black boxes so I switched to Tome4 recently. It's great to see monsters HP, your damage, monster spells etc. I like to be able to take decisions when I have all required information. As a bonus there is no food/consumables so I am not trying to save a potion or corpse for sacrifice.

[njvack]

Yes, this is a black box. I hate black boxes so I switched to Tome4 recently. It's great to see monsters HP, your damage, monster spells etc. I like to be able to take decisions when I have all required information.

Yeah... my sense is that Crawl is Just Not That Kind Of Game.

[One-Eyed Jack]

You have all the "required" information. In fact you have all the important information in almost all cases. "Black boxes" are for things that don't matter very much

[Amnesiac]

Like #######... meaning 37% of the maximum spell power doesn't mean very much and is very intuitive.

[battaile]

I hate black boxes so I switched to Tome4 recently.

Oh wow, I hope that isn't going to slow down your posting here.

[Sandman25]

I hate black boxes so I switched to Tome4 recently.

Oh wow, I hope that isn't going to slow down your posting here.

Thanks
Well, it will be hard to stay helpful if I forget details of crawl. Surprisingly crawl experience helped a lot in Tome.

[Sandman25]

ToME4 has an awful lot of those too, just so you know

Yes, I got disappointed by hidden properties on some artifacts