0.13 armor evp too much?

Tuesday, 25th June 2013, 03:12 by Draba

Short version:
Armor reduces evasion too heavily.

Don't know whether it's intended behavior or not, so posting here.
Based on what I've read about the armor overhaul this one should be a bug.

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.13-a0-1878-g4657556 (tiles) character file. Sarge the Eclecticist (Deep Elf Wizard) Turns: 40414, Time: 03:44:35 HP 83/83 AC 17 Str 6 XL: 15 Next: 81% MP 41/41 EV 19 Int 29 God: Sif Muna [******] Gold 2639 SH 10 Dex 13 Spells: 13 memorised, 8 levels left Res.Fire : . . . See Invis. : + a - flail (protect) Res.Cold : . . . Warding : . n - +0 mottled dragon armour Life Prot.: . . . Conserve : . X - +0 buckler Res.Poison: . Res.Corr. : . I - +2 wizard hat {MR+} Res.Elec. : . Clarity : . H - +0 cloak Sust.Abil.: . . Spirit.Shd : . h - +0 pair of gloves Res.Mut. : . Stasis : . D - -1 pair of orc boots Res.Rott. : . Flight : . S - amulet of faith Saprovore : . . . k - +2 ring of evasion f - ring of see invisible @: very resistant to hostile enchantments, fairly stealthy A: AC +1, EV +2, Int +1 a: Channel Energy, Forget Spell, Renounce Religion You are on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts. You worship Sif Muna. Sif Muna is exalted by your worship. You are not hungry. You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 29 of its levels. You have also visited: Labyrinth and Ice Cave. You have collected 3145 gold pieces. You have spent 526 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons a - an uncursed flail of protection (weapon) Armour h - a +0 pair of gloves (worn) n - a +0 mottled dragon armour (worn) D - a -1 pair of orcish boots (worn) H - a +0 cloak (worn) I - a +2 wizard hat of magic resistance (worn) X - a +0 buckler (worn) Comestibles c - 3 apples r - 7 grapes z - a bread ration O - a rotting chunk of yak flesh R - a honeycomb U - a meat ration Scrolls j - 3 scrolls of teleportation o - 2 scrolls of blinking q - 2 scrolls of fear u - 4 scrolls of remove curse y - 4 scrolls of fog V - a scroll of magic mapping Jewellery d - an uncursed ring of magical power e - an uncursed ring of poison resistance f - a ring of see invisible (left hand) k - a +2 ring of evasion (right hand) l - an uncursed ring of teleportation w - an uncursed ring of flight x - a ring of ice B - an uncursed ring of fire C - a ring of sustenance E - an uncursed ring of sustenance K - a blackened steel amulet M - an uncursed ring of ice N - a small brass amulet S - an amulet of faith (around neck) Potions b - 2 potions of heal wounds g - a potion of resistance i - 2 potions of speed s - 2 potions of invisibility v - a potion of restore abilities A - 5 potions of curing J - a potion of berserk rage Skills: + Level 9,0 Fighting - Level 4,0 Armour + Level 10,3 Dodging - Level 2,4 Stealth - Level 5,0 Shields - Level 8,0 Traps + Level 20,6 Spellcasting + Level 16,0 Conjurations - Level 1,1 Summonings - Level 8,2 Translocations - Level 12,0 Invocations You have 8 spell levels left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Iskenderun's Mystic Conj #######. 1% 4 None b - Orb of Destruction Conj #######... 1% 7 ###.... c - Sticky Flame Conj/Fire ######.. 1% 4 None d - Iskenderun's Battles Conj/Chrm ######.. 1% 4 None e - Conjure Flame Conj/Fire ######.. 1% 3 None f - Mephitic Cloud Conj/Pois/Air ######.. 1% 3 None g - Dig Erth ####.... 14% 4 None h - Fulminant Prism Conj/Hex ######.. 1% 5 None i - Magic Dart Conj #### 0% 1 None j - Phase Shift Tloc ######.... 1% 5 None k - Blink Tloc N/A 1% 2 None l - Call Imp Summ #####..... 1% 2 None m - Flight Chrm/Air ####...... 4% 3 None Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (16/27) Temple (1/1) D:5 Orc (4/4) D:9 Elf (0/3) Orc:3 Lair (8/8) D:12 Swamp (0/5) Lair:5 Snake (0/5) Lair:3 Slime (0/6) Lair:6 Vaults: D:15-20 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin the Shining One Beogh Jiyva Shops: D:6: ? D:14: + Orc:1: + Orc:4: %*!( Portals: Ziggurat: D:6 (3940 gp) Trove: D:15 (give 5 scrolls of blinking) Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You are surrounded by a mild repulsion field (EV +2). Your mind is acute (Int +1). You are covered in fur (AC +1). Message History You finish putting on your +3 ring mail of fire resistance. You feel resistant to fire. You start putting on your armour. You continue putting on your +0 cloak. You finish putting on your +0 cloak. Wear which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit) You start removing your armour. You continue taking off your +0 cloak. You finish taking off your +0 cloak. You start removing your armour. You continue taking off your +3 ring mail of fire resistance. You finish taking off your +3 ring mail of fire resistance. "Was it this warm in here before?" You start putting on your armour. You continue putting on your +0 mottled dragon armour. You finish putting on your +0 mottled dragon armour. You start putting on your armour. You continue putting on your +0 cloak. You finish putting on your +0 cloak. Drop what? (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit) You drop a +3 ring mail of fire resistance. Char dumped to 'morgue/Sarge.txt'. Saving game... please wait. ### ##)### ### #...f### #.### #......# ####...### #......## ####.#....#.#####f...P## .......................## f#########...##.######.@# f.###........##.#.###..### .....................<...# ###### ....P.#...###.###...##.#.# #....# ..######### #.###...#..#.# #>..#### ..# ##.P##...#....### #### ##......# ### ##### #..###.........P####..#####......## # #...####...##...........................# #####...........#....#.#..#.#P.......#.....## #.##............#...##....####........#.P### .........................#####....#...#.## ##.#######.##..##...#....#........#.....###### ###### #....f###f##......................... ####.# #....## ####............(.......##### ##...#####.....# #.......##..........#####. #....#.##.#...### #....#####..........##.... There are no monsters in sight! Vanquished Creatures Rupert (Lair:3) A frost giant (IceCv) Gastronok (Lair:3) A fire giant (shapeshifter) (D:15) A dragon (D:14) A minotaur (Lab) Fannar (D:15) Harold (D:10) 6 hydras Nessos (Orc:4) A death yak (IceCv) A very ugly thing (D:15) Urug (D:12) Nergalle (Lair:2) A centaur warrior (D:14) 3 orc high priests (Orc:4) A catoblepas (Lair:3) Erolcha (D:10) An unseen horror (shapeshifter) (D:13) 4 unseen horrors An ice statue (IceCv) 8 hill giants Pikel (D:7) 2 griffons 5 orc knights 4 orc sorcerers (Orc:4) A sixfirhy (Orc:4) Maurice (D:13) 3 cyclopes 3 elephant slugs 4 black mambas A yaktaur (shapeshifter) (D:13) 4 slime creatures (D:14) A spriggan druid (Lair:8) A hill giant zombie (D:14) 8 elephants (Lair:7) Psyche (Orc:4) 11 spiny frogs 5 trolls 6 komodo dragons 14 ugly things A two-headed ogre (Orc:3) 2 hill giant skeletons Sonja (Orc:4) A red devil (Orc:4) 2 blue devils (Orc:4) A wandering mushroom (Lair:8) 20 polar bears 7 spriggans (Lair:8) A trapdoor spider simulacrum (D:13) 14 blink frogs 4 basilisks 2 wyverns 87 yaks A hog (shapeshifter) (D:14) 7 grizzly bears (Lair:8) 2 wraiths A trapdoor spider (D:10) 4 vampire mosquitoes (D:15) A chaos spawn (Orc:4) 12 hippogriffs 3 hungry ghosts 2 fire drakes A yaktaur zombie (D:15) 2 fulminant prisms A rock worm (D:13) 36 wolves 2 swamp worms (Lair:5) A manticore (D:14) 2 steam dragons 5 mottled dragons A necrophage (D:9) 9 black bears (Lair:8) 5 sky beasts 26 orc warriors 8 porcupines 4 slaves (D:7) 2 wyvern skeletons 2 cyclops skeletons 5 giant goldfish 2 phantoms A tengu (D:15) A boulder beetle zombie (D:15) 7 ice beasts 9 ogres 3 boring beetles 5 centaurs 15 crocodiles 2 rotting devils (Orc:4) 3 nagas (Lair:3) A troll skeleton (D:11) A warg (Orc:4) 2 yak skeletons A basilisk zombie (D:12) 10 water moccasins 19 giant frogs 12 giant slugs 10 agate snails 2 big kobolds A giant frog skeleton (D:12) 2 wights (D:9) 34 killer bees An electric eel (Lair:5) A killer bee zombie (D:13) 2 goliath beetles 17 crimson imps A mottled dragon zombie (D:14) An ogre zombie (D:5) 11 hounds A sky beast zombie (D:5) A quasit (D:8) 8 big fish (Lair:5) A gnoll shaman (D:10) 28 orc priests A hound skeleton (D:7) 2 iron imps 13 worker ants 37 orc wizards 3 scorpions A worker ant zombie (D:9) 9 iguanas 15 sheep Ijyb (D:5) 4 boggarts (D:15) 6 jellies 50 green rats 18 adders 4 gnolls An adder zombie (D:6) An inept item mimic (D:2) A shadow imp (D:9) An adder skeleton (D:4) 6 giant centipedes An iguana skeleton (D:6) 8 worms An inept feature mimic (D:6) A white imp (Lair:6) A giant mite (Lair:3) A bat skeleton (D:4) 2 giant eyeballs 8 giant geckos 6 oozes 184 orcs 20 bats 4 giant cockroaches 23 goblins 28 hobgoblins 17 jackals 16 quokkas 7 giant newts 3 giant spores A goblin skeleton (D:5) A hobgoblin zombie (D:9) 27 kobolds 2 orc zombies 22 rats A rat skeleton (D:8) 10 ballistomycetes 5 fungi 2 plants 1195 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills) A wolf (Lair:2) A killer bee (D:9) A mummy (D:9) 3 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (others) A giant slug (Lair:6) 133 fulminant prisms 17 crimson imps An orc priest (D:8) A gnoll (D:10) A green rat (Lair:8) 2 shadow imps 9 white imps A worm (D:11) 3 orcs A hobgoblin (D:7) 2 giant spores (D:13) A rat (D:7) 3 fungi 5 plants 181 creatures vanquished. Grand Total: 1379 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | Sarge, the Deep Elf Wizard, began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 8/8 MP: 7/7 649 | D:2 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 13/13 MP: 10/10 809 | D:2 | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting 809 | D:2 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 17/17 MP: 6/13 869 | D:2 | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink 872 | D:2 | Learned a level 2 spell: Call Imp 876 | D:2 | Learned a level 3 spell: Conjure Flame 880 | D:2 | Learned a level 3 spell: Mephitic Cloud 1489 | D:2 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 22/22 MP: 13/17 2010 | D:3 | Reached skill level 6 in Spellcasting 2099 | D:3 | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas. 2099 | D:3 | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha. 2663 | D:4 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 22/26 MP: 10/20 3052 | D:4 | Reached skill level 7 in Spellcasting 3214 | D:4 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 31/31 MP: 8/22 3595 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 3719 | D:5 | Noticed Ijyb 3867 | D:5 | Killed Ijyb 4066 | D:5 | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations 4119 | D:5 | Reached skill level 8 in Spellcasting 4336 | D:5 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 29/35 MP: 20/25 4462 | D:5 | Found an iron altar of Okawaru. 4615 | D:5 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 4625 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 4747 | Temple | Became a worshipper of Sif Muna the Loreminder 4805 | D:5 | Reached skill level 9 in Spellcasting 5047 | D:5 | Gained mutation: Your mind is acute (Int +1). [mutagenic meat] 5048 | D:5 | Gained mutation: You are surrounded by a mild repulsion field (EV +2). [mutagenic meat] 5076 | D:5 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 40/40 MP: 18/27 5739 | D:6 | Acquired Sif Muna's first power 5871 | D:6 | Found Eraxu's Magic Scroll Boutique. 5893 | D:6 | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting 5969 | D:6 | Found a gateway to a ziggurat. 6317 | D:6 | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados. 7198 | D:7 | Reached skill level 11 in Spellcasting 7202 | D:7 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 44/44 MP: 27/30 7220 | D:7 | Noticed a troll 7225 | D:7 | Killed a troll 7225 | D:7 | Acquired Sif Muna's second power 7685 | D:7 | Noticed Pikel 7693 | D:7 | Killed Pikel 7693 | D:7 | Reached skill level 12 in Spellcasting 8382 | D:8 | Reached skill level 10 in Conjurations 9078 | D:8 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 48/48 MP: 29/32 9145 | D:8 | Reached skill level 13 in Spellcasting 9366 | D:8 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb. 9855 | D:9 | Acquired Sif Muna's third power 10188 | D:9 | Reached skill level 14 in Spellcasting 10387 | D:9 | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines. 11255 | D:9 | Received a gift from Sif Muna 11383 | D:9 | Learned a level 4 spell: Iskenderun's Battlesphere 11389 | D:9 | Learned a level 5 spell: Fulminant Prism 11394 | D:9 | Learned a level 4 spell: Iskenderun's Mystic Blast 11420 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon 11442 | D:9 | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations 12091 | D:10 | Noticed Erolcha 12093 | D:10 | Noticed a hill giant 12096 | D:10 | Reached XP level 11. HP: 52/52 MP: 7/35 12100 | D:10 | Killed a hill giant 12100 | D:10 | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations 12122 | D:10 | Killed Erolcha 12508 | D:10 | Noticed a hill giant 12523 | D:10 | Killed a hill giant 12824 | D:10 | Killed an unseen horror 13013 | D:10 | Noticed Harold 13042 | D:10 | Killed Harold 13152 | D:10 | Reached skill level 15 in Spellcasting 13174 | D:10 | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting 15567 | D:11 | Reached XP level 12. HP: 22/61 MP: 27/36 15779 | D:12 | Noticed Urug 15787 | D:12 | Killed Urug 15787 | D:12 | Received a gift from Sif Muna 15787 | D:12 | Reached skill level 16 in Spellcasting 15790 | D:12 | Identified Sif Muna's Incunabulum of Igneous Confrontation (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 12 of the Dungeon) 15827 | D:11 | Learned a level 4 spell: Sticky Flame 15894 | D:12 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 15910 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 17039 | D:12 | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting 17411 | D:12 | Noticed an unseen horror 17415 | D:12 | Killed an unseen horror 17492 | D:12 | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging 18222 | Lair:2 | Learned a level 4 spell: Dig 18282 | Lair:2 | Received a gift from Sif Muna 18285 | Lair:2 | Identified Sif Muna's Catalogue of Conjuration (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts) 18849 | Lair:2 | Noticed Nergalle 18908 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 17 in Spellcasting 18968 | Lair:2 | Killed Nergalle 19311 | Lair:3 | Noticed a catoblepas 19351 | Lair:3 | Noticed a seven-headed hydra 19548 | Lair:2 | Killed a seven-headed hydra 20120 | Lair:3 | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit. 20202 | Lair:3 | Noticed Gastronok 20237 | Lair:3 | Killed Gastronok 20552 | Lair:3 | Killed a catoblepas 20742 | Lair:3 | Reached XP level 13. HP: 69/69 MP: 38/38 20867 | Lair:3 | Noticed Rupert 20882 | Lair:3 | Killed Rupert 21122 | Lair:3 | Received a gift from Sif Muna 21122 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Conjurations 21125 | Lair:3 | Identified Sif Muna's Compendium of Confrontation (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts) 21778 | Lair:4 | Got a polished plate armour 22106 | Lair:1 | Identified the +9 plate armour "Kagigiu" {rC+} (You found it on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts) 22805 | Lair:4 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb. 22864 | Lair:4 | Gained mutation: You are covered in fur (AC +1). [potion of beneficial mutation] 22913 | Lair:5 | Reached skill level 18 in Spellcasting 23236 | Lair:5 | Found a staircase to the Swamp. 24325 | Lair:6 | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva. 24325 | Lair:6 | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits. 24411 | Lair:6 | Noticed a five-headed hydra 24423 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 10 in Invocations 24554 | Lair:6 | Killed a five-headed hydra 25596 | Lair:7 | Reached skill level 1 in Traps 26515 | Lair:7 | Received a gift from Sif Muna 26525 | Lair:7 | Identified Sif Muna's Disquisition on Vitriolic Battle Magic (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts) 26698 | Lair:7 | Reached skill level 19 in Spellcasting 26790 | Lair:8 | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts 26895 | Lair:8 | Found a frozen archway. 26912 | IceCv | Entered an ice cave 26934 | IceCv | Reached XP level 14. HP: 77/77 MP: 32/40 27049 | IceCv | Reached skill level 5 in Traps 27341 | IceCv | Paralysed by you for 7 turns 27963 | IceCv | Noticed a frost giant 28070 | IceCv | Reached skill level 20 in Spellcasting 28075 | IceCv | Killed a frost giant 28075 | IceCv | Received a gift from Sif Muna 28078 | IceCv | Identified Sif Muna's Handbook of Arcane Weapons (Sif Muna gifted it to you in an ice cave) 29121 | Lair:8 | Noticed a four-headed hydra 29129 | Lair:8 | Killed a four-headed hydra 29159 | Lair:8 | Learned a level 3 spell: Flight 29175 | Lair:8 | Learned a level 5 spell: Phase Shift 29422 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 5 in Translocations 29825 | Lair:6 | Noticed an acid blob 29852 | Lair:6 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns 30255 | Orc:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines 30712 | Orc:1 | Found Skeuttun's Book Emporium. 30926 | Orc:1 | Reached skill level 1 in Shields 31958 | Orc:3 | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls. 32334 | Orc:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines 32654 | Orc:4 | Noticed Nessos 32665 | Orc:4 | Killed Nessos 32980 | Orc:4 | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh. 32998 | Orc:4 | Noticed Sonja 33004 | Orc:4 | Killed Sonja 33190 | Orc:4 | Noticed Psyche 33194 | Orc:4 | Killed Psyche 33624 | Orc:4 | Reached XP level 15. HP: 52/82 MP: 15/41 34168 | Orc:4 | Received a gift from Sif Muna 34168 | Orc:4 | Reached skill level 5 in Shields 34195 | Orc:4 | Identified Sif Muna's Handbook of Attacks and Orientation (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 4 of the Orcish Mines) 34242 | Orc:4 | Learned a level 7 spell: Orb of Destruction 34416 | Orc:4 | Found Gogeg's Food Emporium. 34420 | Orc:4 | Found Elocsymo's Assorted Antiques. 34425 | Orc:4 | Found Gaug's Distillery. 34427 | Orc:4 | Found Priurogia's Antique Weapon Emporium. 34501 | Orc:4 | Bought a potion of mutation for 39 gold pieces 34501 | Orc:4 | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 39 gold pieces 34501 | Orc:4 | Bought a potion of brilliance for 32 gold pieces 34516 | Orc:4 | Bought a metal-bound book for 390 gold pieces 34516 | Orc:4 | Bought a scroll labeled ZIPHAE GETAQ for 26 gold pieces 34986 | D:13 | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin. 34986 | D:13 | Noticed an angel 35158 | D:13 | Noticed Maurice 35997 | D:13 | Killed Maurice 36093 | D:14 | Entered Level 14 of the Dungeon 37098 | D:14 | Found Onlarygoku's Book Shop. 37473 | D:15 | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon 37473 | D:15 | Found a portal to a secret trove of treasure. 37484 | D:14 | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging 37782 | D:15 | Found a labyrinth entrance. 37806 | Lab | Entered a labyrinth 38833 | Lab | Identified a +3 rod of frigid destruction (13/13) (You found it in a labyrinth) 39400 | D:15 | Noticed a fire giant 39415 | D:15 | Killed a fire giant 39415 | D:15 | Reached skill level 1 in Armour 39550 | D:15 | Noticed Fannar 39574 | D:15 | Killed Fannar Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Unarmed | 11 | 4 | | | || 15 Hammer | | | 6 | | || 6 Flail | | | 7 | 86 | 111 || 204 Whip | | | 3 | | || 3 Dagger | | | | | 1 || 1 Cast: Magic Dart | 65 | 210 | 434 | 527 | 201 || 1437 Conjure Flame | 4 | 12 | 41 | 108 | 168 || 333 Blink | 1 | | | 7 | 9 || 17 Call Imp | | 1 | 3 | 25 | 24 || 53 Mephitic Cloud | | 3 | 31 | 34 | 11 || 79 Iskenderun's Myst | | | | 81 | 624 || 705 Iskenderun's Batt | | | | 76 | 110 || 186 Fulminant Prism | | | | 18 | 118 || 136 Sticky Flame | | | | 3 | 13 || 16 Dig | | | | | 27 || 27 Orb of Destructio | | | | | 9 || 9 Invok: Channel Energy | | | | 115 | 668 || 783 Evoke: Wand | | | | 1 | 24 || 25 Deck | | | | | 10 || 10 Use: Potion | 1 | | 1 | 6 | 4 || 12 Scroll | | | 6 | 20 | 20 || 46 Stab: Confused | | | 1 | | || 1 Distracted | | | | | 2 || 2

With no body armor, this guy has 22 evasion. With a mottled dragon armor it's 19, a ring mail 13.
6 strength should roughly be enough in the new system to avoid extra penalties for ring mail and lighter,
9 evasion penalty instead of 2 definitely looks like an oversight.

Tuesday, 25th June 2013, 05:17 by Siegurt

In my tests ring mail and higher had larger strength requirements than they did in .12

Ring mail was about 7 Str to get to the 'diminishing returns' point (vs. 6 in .12)

Wednesday, 26th June 2013, 20:16 by crate

i suggest you go do these same tests in 0.12 and come back with the results

Wednesday, 26th June 2013, 23:30 by Siegurt

.12 is a much simpler formula, you stop getting benefit from Str when it is >= thrice the (old) evp of the armour.

In .13 Str has a logarithmic effect on the penalty, so raising str to infinity would theoretically give you some sort of benefit, of course in reality, these numbers are integers and so are subject to rounding, the .13 "point of diminishing return" I mention is the last point of Str which reduces the body armour penalty to EV by at least 1 point (it's possible to get some additional benefit past this point, but it takes a lot of strength for an additional 1-2 more points of EV). As such my numbers for .13 are a little bit of a judgement call, and certainly should be taken with a grain of salt.

For comparision

Code:: Strength for given body armours: .12 .13 ___ ___ Leather 3 4 Ring 6 7 Scale 9 10 Chain 12 16 ** Splint 15 Plate 18 20 CPA 24 26 GDA 27 30

Note that .13 chain moved up to occupy the "splint mail" slot, both in armour value and GDR and occupies it's intended slot in the evp progression as well.

This also doesn't make any claims about the *amount* of penalty for any given body armour relative to the old version at any given amount of strength, it's strictly a comparison of the amount of Str which can be used effectively to mitigate a given body armour's penalty

Friday, 28th June 2013, 10:35 by Galefury

This seems pointless. Sometimes things change. In this case they haven't even changed much. It's not 9 instead of 2. It just used to say 2 in the description, the actual penalty was larger.

Friday, 28th June 2013, 13:42 by crate

fyi the "evp change" only barely actually affects your EV in armour and str actually has exactly the same effect on your EV in armour as it did before afaik (except base_evp is replaced by encumbrance_rating/3)
the main change is to how str affects spell success and melee penalties in armour

Friday, 28th June 2013, 16:11 by Siegurt

Actually in .13 Strength doesn't quite have the *exact* same effect as it did in .12. Just like melee attack and spell success, more strength does ultimately reduce your EV penalty in heavy armour, so while 6 str in ring mail was as much as you could reduce the penalty in .12, if you have more strength than that it does impact your EV penalty, it just takes a lot of points past 7 to get anything more.

However as an approximation, "You need about the same strength you needed before" is good enough (Unless you're a numbers fanatic like myself

The actual formula's are

Code:: .12 base_ev+(3*MAX(0,(base_ev*3)-Str))

vs.

Code:: .13 (2/5) * evp^2 / (str+3)

For reference, that looks like this:
http://www.quickmath.com/webMathematica3/quickmath/graphs/equations/basic.jsp#c=draw_basicgraphequation&v1=y%3D(2%2F5)*7%5E2%2F(x%2B3)&v2=0&v3=30&v4=0&v5=10
For ring mail

(Where y is the penalty and x is strength)

Friday, 28th June 2013, 16:31 by Siegurt

Ah and in reference to why the original poster was seeing such a large difference in their EV stat in ring vs in mottled.

There's an *additional* penalty to your dodge skill from your body armour mitigated by Str, the first few points of which are negated.

This particular penalty hasn't been changed from .12

Friday, 28th June 2013, 21:26 by galehar

moved the thread in GDD

Friday, 28th June 2013, 21:43 by crate

oh, right, yes, str very slightly decreases the EV hit you take with 0 dodging in 0.13

the effect of str on your bonus EV from dodging is unchanged in 0.13 though

0.13 armor evp too much?

0.13 armor evp too much?

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