Goblins as a player race


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Snake Sneak

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Post Saturday, 5th March 2011, 11:11

Goblins as a player race

  Code:
                 Arm Ddg Sth Stb Shd T&D   Inv Evo                 Exp
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Goblin            -3  -1  -2   +2  -3  +4   0   +4                 80

                 Fgt SBl LBl M&F Axs Pla Stv UC    Thr Slg Bws Crb
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Goblin            -1  -1  -2   0  -1  -2 -3  -1    -1  +1   -1  -2

                 Spc Coj Hex Cha Sum Nec Trl Trm   Fir Ice Air Ear Poi
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Goblin            -1  -3  +3  -3  -2  -2  -1  -2    -2  -2  -2  -2  +2



Small size and no racial mutations


I see goblins as small, weak, cowardly race that prefer trickery to actual combat and tried to match attributes with that view

They are small but they differ from both kobolds and halflings because they suck in small blades, combat in general, defence and in the most schools of spellcasting.
Their selling points are - leveling faster then humans (no race does that, and i think it's interesting) The best evocations (Monster goblins do spawn with wands right?), Good hexes and poison schools
It's not an easy race to play, I'd even say challenge one but goblins do suck as monsters so it's logical. We'll get new, smaller ogres :) Of course it's only basic idea and requires brainstorming

Snake Sneak

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Post Saturday, 5th March 2011, 16:34

Re: Goblins as a player race

Why should Goblins have poor dodge? I like the idea of an inferior race that levels faster than humans, but give them at least some good apts. For example, if they like "trickery", why can't they be good Transmuters? (turning into a spider is a "magic trick" more than OMG SUPER FIREBALL EVERYTHING DIES).

Good concept, but needs more refinement.

Snake Sneak

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Post Saturday, 5th March 2011, 22:55

Re: Goblins as a player race

jackalKnight wrote:Why should Goblins have poor dodge?.
because they are cowards and prefer to avoid real combat? And there are too many small races with good dodging anyway. Yes I know that goblins and kobold monsters have same EV but..

Spider Stomper

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Post Monday, 7th March 2011, 13:31

Re: Goblins as a player race

jackalKnight wrote:Why should Goblins have poor dodge?


Remember that in Crawl, small races have an implicit dodging bonus that matters a lot more than dodging aptitude. So thinking about dodging skill, you should think of it as "dodging skill compared to what you would expect from a creature of that size".
Crazy Yiuf mutters: "Good: bonuses. Bad: Boni. Ugly: Bonii!"
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Mines Malingerer

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Post Monday, 7th March 2011, 15:19

Does Crawl really need another vanilla race? Not all monster races need to have a player race devoted to them / vice versa for new player race suggestions.

I guess there's some merit in the idea of making them inferior in all aspects and have them be a challenge race, but we have ogres already for that purpose :)
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Snake Sneak

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Post Wednesday, 9th March 2011, 05:27

Re: Goblins as a player race

Potential nonvanilla race:

Hamsterfolk.
Craziest Hamster

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 9th March 2011, 05:49

Re: Goblins as a player race

Win.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Wednesday, 9th March 2011, 07:01

Re: Goblins as a player race

As proposed, goblins would get the highest traps & doors aptitude in the game. This would make them excellent thieves, if, well, thieves were still in the game and had a point. They're good stabbers... but bad at stealth (making it hard to stab). Not to mention they're poor at short blades. This kinda makes a stalker or assassin a mediocre start, at best.

With that +3 in hexes, I guess they could be good enchanters. Enscollered hibernation removes a lot of need for stealth. Also, as a small dexterous race, it looks like we finally have a natural looking candidates for whip use. For the bigger, brute-ier races, going with a whip over something big, heavy, and blunt. But a whip is very thematic fit for a gobbo.

Why not give the goblins some skill with crossbows? No one has more than a +1 now, so it'd be a differentiating feature. Also, I always liked the idea that goblins had a natural affinity for things mechanical and nasty- this would also justify the good traps and possibly evocations. Heck, if we define their racial flavor as "nefarious tinkerers" than that justifies good transmutations too- they're just more biologically minded goblins.

Overall, I have nothing against a race that's harder to play, or doesn't fit many roles well. You don't need to have special racial mutations or abilities either. But you do need to have some kind of theme to base the race around.

varkarrus wrote:Potential nonvanilla race:

Hamsterfolk.

Okay... let's see what I can do. Obviously, tiny size. Felid item item manipulation restrictions, or worse. No armor slots. No ring fingers- but they can wear one ring as a hat, like my rats of nimh idea. Unfortunately, as these hamsters aren't genetically engineered lab creatures, they don't have hands. That means they can't wield anything, or even manage to covert a scroll of paper into a cloak. Maybe they can kind of walk into an amulet and wear it cord around the neck, amulet resting on their back? I'm assuming crawl amulets are small tasteful things, and not like the giant things pharaohs are shown wearing in leu of a shirt. Bad hp and str growths. Average (or less) int growth, mediocre (or lightly better) dex.

Vegetarian. Teeth 1 or 2 (they do have rodent chompers, but them again, herbivore). Possibly slow metabolism 1, regen 1. Flavor wise, blame it on the pudge. They got enough physical reserves to supplement biological needs for the duration of the game. Sinvs seems natural for a rodent. Speed, maybe around centaur level, or a little less? Fur, obviously, but not much AC. No Claws.

...stopped to actually wiki the little buggers. Apparently they're omnivores. And nearsighted. So we could let them eat meat, but then I'd take away the slow metabolism. ...of course, without hands, they can't butcher, so no corpse meat. All you gain is meat rations and sausages. Maybe I'll leave Slow met. We could remove the Sinvs too, but it'd be nice to have something going for them. Maybe justify it by saying they draw the map from smell, not sight? This would allow S(mell)invs, immunity to LOS interruptions by clouds (although smelly clouds might be a problem), immunity to blindness (since they ain't looking anyways), and illusions.

All weapon, laucher, armor skills, na. Uh... burrowers, so they gotta have something positive in earth. They like wheels, so arguably we have some kind of mechanical affinity, so I'll justify decent traps and doors skills. I'm pretty sure Ham-hams are stealthly (or at least, David Willis has lead me to believe they are). Dodging.... let's say 2 or 3. That's worse than spriggns, but they're smaller, so they get a size modifier. I'm say mediocre spell casting and hp, since they don't look particularly smart/dump strong/fragile. The rest of the magic schools are kinda tough. Maybe good charms, cause they're cute? :p Dunno, we'll leave that hanging.

Alright, so far, we've got felids with less equipment, poorer apps, and no extra lives. What positives can we add?

Special racial ability:

Maybe a "run between their legs" thing- the ability to move through a monster occupied square to the other side. Basically, an adjusted version of pass wall. Certainly not foolproof, and moving through/by an enemy takes more time than normal movement.

Hamster ball. When equipping a hamster balls, a hamster gains bonuses in speed, evasion, damage, and AC. While inside the hamster ball, you lose the abilty to make extra unarmed attacks (biting, kicking) and suffer a stealth penalty. You can also be trampled (knocked around) much more easily. Attacks with hamster balls train maces and flails, and wearing one trains armor. Solid helms (but not hats)may be used as an improvised hamster ball- but suffer penalties. Crystal balls can be used as flawless crystal balls. ...and the orb of Zot functions an a one of a kind, fixedart hamster ball. 8-)

This, in of in itself, is awesome enough to justify the whole dang race, challenge and all. It reduces the game to an attempt to attain ultimate hamster magical powered riding armor. :lol:

Flavor text: Hamster: a small, pudgy rodent whose sense of smell is more reliable than many races' eyes. Hamsters lack much in the way of physical prowess, nor are they particularly attuned to the arcane or divine, but they do posses a unique way to combine weapon, armor, and transportation. They are, admittedly, poor adventures (much better pets) but every so often one is drawn to the dungeon's depths, lured by the tales of the prize in it's deepest reaches. In a way, attaining the orb of Zot would hold more personal significance to a hamster than a member of any other race.

For this message the author mageykun has received thanks:
varkarrus

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Wednesday, 9th March 2011, 08:01

Re: Goblins as a player race

mageykun wrote:Why not give the goblins some skill with crossbows? No one has more than a +1 now, so it'd be a differentiating feature.

(actually, kobolds have +2 in 0.8)
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Snake Sneak

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Post Wednesday, 9th March 2011, 13:01

Re: Goblins as a player race

mageykun wrote:awesome stuff


You are awesome.
You should feel awesome.
:O
Craziest Hamster

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