Abyss Ambulator
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Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.
Abyss Ambulator
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Spider Stomper
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Dungeon Master
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Spider Stomper
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dpeg wrote:not an outcry for removal after every poison death of a formicid.
Cocytus Succeeder
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dpeg wrote:rP- is harsh but I think it's best to keep playing. A handicap like this needs time for adaptation, not an outcry for removal after every poison death of a formicid.
Vestibule Violator
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nago wrote:dpeg wrote:rP- is harsh but I think it's best to keep playing. A handicap like this needs time for adaptation, not an outcry for removal after every poison death of a formicid.
Actually I'm not complaining so much about the death of a Fo due to poison - unfair deaths like the one I reported can be solved probably just adding some healing pots from the start of small adjustment like that.
I'm addressing the big hassle is having rpois- : pratically every poisonous enemy means you have to smash 5 for a minute, even if he's totally harmless. Anyway, Galehar has opened a topic more general on the argument, so I'd eventual comment more there.
Abyss Ambulator
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dck wrote:Hey, has wand acq been changed for Fo so that they don't get sticks of tele and haste?
Tomb Titivator
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Vestibule Violator
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Dungeon Master
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Zot Zealot
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Vestibule Violator
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Zot Zealot
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Vestibule Violator
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Vestibule Violator
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Zot Zealot
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dck wrote:If you remove the stasis or give them faster than normal movement then everything else that lets dwants tackle things in interesting ways suffers a lot or is removed...
Siegurt wrote:Stasis has a number of interesting benefits and drawbacks, and it's the most interesting part of the race.
Dungeon Master
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Zot Zealot
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Tartarus Sorceror
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WalkerBoh wrote:Sorry, when I say -Tele I was of the understanding that also means no blinking. Maybe that wasn't clear. I specifically only object to not being able to haste/zerk/swift.
Barkeep
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Tomb Titivator
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pubby wrote:I ran into a nasty bug though: When going with Oka and getting finesse online I get constantly the message "you cannot use finesse because of your stasis". I get this message multiple times per turn so it is making this character unplayable. I've seen others play Okawaru games so this is probably already known so I didn't open a ticket in Mantis. Inform me, if this isn't the case, please. Version crawl_tiles-0.14-a0-788-g14b720c.
This _might_ have been fixed. If you still have the save, could you update to latest trunk and see if the message still gets spammed?
Zot Zealot
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Crypt Cleanser
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Swamp Slogger
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Wahaha wrote:My main complaint is that shafting doesn't work in branch ends and it means they can't escape at all without god abilities.
Mines Malingerer
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Pandemonium Purger
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Spider Stomper
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MDvedh wrote:I think Formicids players should know they have to think _before_ they engage.
Dungeon Master
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Bloax wrote:And no, my point isn't "omfg Fo is weaker than Gr wtf!!!"
- it's just that Fo provides a terrible experience for anyone daring to pick it. Unless they're into shafting themselves until they meet a water moccasin and die.
Crypt Cleanser
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MDvedh wrote:Wahaha wrote:My main complaint is that shafting doesn't work in branch ends and it means they can't escape at all without god abilities.
Except they can just walk away.
I think Formicids players should know they have to think _before_ they engage.
Pandemonium Purger
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dpeg wrote:Well, I had a great experience with all the Fo I played.
dpeg wrote:That seems to be exactly your point.
Spider Stomper
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dpeg wrote:Well, I had a great experience with all the Fo I played.- it's just that Fo provides a terrible experience for anyone daring to pick it. Unless they're into shafting themselves until they meet a water moccasin and die.
Slime Squisher
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Bloax wrote:And I've had a bad time with the 39 I've splatted, which is where I base my opinion from.
Crypt Cleanser
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Halls Hopper
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Bloax wrote:Gr is a good comparision, since they too are in the -2 Hp category - except they are intentionally fragile because they are so indestructible. Formicids have none of that, and they also have stasis and rPois- slapped into the mix.
Sure, they can wield twohanders with shields - but how often do you get to that point? And why are they so fragile?
Tengu have good aptitudes and can fly away from most monsters, gargoyles are indestructible, deep elves have insane aptitudes and a huge mp pool, and formicids have non-instantaneous shafting for their only escape mechanism.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Zot Zealot
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duvessa wrote:Anyway, if stasis goes, I agree with Wahaha that leaving -tele on would be pretty pointless. I mean, I already mentioned the unrandart that does exactly that, no need to add a species with it too.
Halls Hopper
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WalkerBoh wrote:duvessa wrote:Anyway, if stasis goes, I agree with Wahaha that leaving -tele on would be pretty pointless. I mean, I already mentioned the unrandart that does exactly that, no need to add a species with it too.
And if you want to have stasis, there happens to be a very common amulet that provides just that.
I assume the main reason people (dck, duvessa, Wahaha) are against -Tele over stasis is because Haste exists as a spell? If so, would giving them a terrible Charms apt be enough to discourage that (-3 or -4)? Otherwise, I really don't see why allowing them to use speed pots, berserk, and swiftness are so bad that they ruin the point of formicids. I think there are many situations made more interesting by having -Tele, dig, and shaft that are not ruined by allowing speed/berserk/swiftness.
If I'm missing something obvious, which is entirely possible, can someone explain it for me so I can stop embarrassing myself by championing this?
WalkerBoh wrote:I assume the main reason people (dck, duvessa, Wahaha) are against -Tele over stasis is because Haste exists as a spell?duvessa wrote:Anyway, if stasis goes, I agree with Wahaha that leaving -tele on would be pretty pointless. I mean, I already mentioned the unrandart that does exactly that, no need to add a species with it too.
Zot Zealot
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Dungeon Master
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duvessa wrote:No and I'm not sure how you even got that impressionWalkerBoh wrote:I assume the main reason people (dck, duvessa, Wahaha) are against -Tele over stasis is because Haste exists as a spell?
duvessa wrote:It's already been mentioned countless times in this thread, and in a great deal of other threads: haste exists. [...] If you do not consider this interesting then I am thoroughly confused as to why you think -Tele is interesting.
Zot Zealot
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duvessa wrote:It's already been mentioned countless times in this thread, and in a great deal of other threads: haste exists. Killing things and running away are both enormously easier with haste. Blocking berserk, slow, and paralysis also has some (much smaller) implications. If you do not consider this interesting then I am thoroughly confused as to why you think -Tele is interesting.
Crypt Cleanser
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Wahaha wrote:What makes them interesting for me is that they can't run away easily. If they had access to haste, even if only in potion/wand form, they would be able to run away easily. Not even talking about swiftness here. Therefore they wouldn't be interesting anymore. I don't particularly care about whether they can or can't use haste, what matters is that haste would let them escape and I do care about that.
Crypt Cleanser
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Formicids need some way of being able to handle those situations, and right now they do not have one.
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