In Soviet Russia, god abandons you! (Overworld god)


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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Thursday, 14th February 2013, 17:54

In Soviet Russia, god abandons you! (Overworld god)

The short version is that when you worship the god of the overworld, (called Quinby for now, because names are hard,) you get useful blessings to persuade you to come serve on the overworld (outside the dungeon) where Quinby really wants you. After a time, no matter what you do, Quinby loses patience and excommunicates you, and you must deal with horrible wrath until you join him on the overworld (via winning or leaving the dungeon) or die.

The altar is only found in a timed portal vault, so you can't wait until you're ready for some certain region of the postgame or a zig and take him while you grab the last rune.

Your piety starts at six stars and falls over time so you have an idea when wrath will start. You get periodic warnings like, "I have blessed you richly while you linger here below; come join me on the surface and I will bless you more." "I have done my part for you, soon you must serve me in the sun or suffer."

Blessings
  • Constant regeneration
  • Constant sustenance
  • Bands of Neutral humans (about the strength of hell knights, maybe?) from the overworld appear in high tension and begin fighting against your enemies. You can have their stuff when they die, and they have good stuff.
  • Improved accuracy of attacks
  • A fraction of enemy attacks (Maybe 1 in 3) do 50% less damage
  • A fraction of enemies will forget your location
  • Stairwells are identified when you enter a level

Wrath
  • Slow healing
  • Fast metabolism
  • Bands of hostile humans from the overworld appear in high tension
  • Decreased accuracy
  • A fraction of enemy attacks do 50% extra damage
  • All enemies wake up and are alerted to your location when you enter a level
  • Summons attack every time you use stairs
  • At random times, you're teleported to the up stars on D1 and surrounded by hostile humans.
The time limit should be about the time it takes to do three branches, and the portal should start appearing at vaults and below. It would be fun to get the altar and rush to get through with the runes before the time ran out.
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Barkeep

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Post Thursday, 14th February 2013, 19:31

Re: In Soviet Russia, god abandons you! (Overworld god)

I like the idea of a god with a timing-out altar (say, a portal vault) -- though I think I'd like it more if it happened at standard overflow altar depth or a little earlier.

I'm not as sold on the idea of a god getting weaker and weaker (in absolute terms) as the game goes on. That system might be more interesting in a starting God -- you trade an easier early game for no divine support in the late game.

Getting excommunicated after a given time might just mean I don't do anything challenging when I'm close to wrath time -- it'd suck to suddenly get wrathed in Zot:5, so I'd wait it out in the easiest place I could find.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Thursday, 14th February 2013, 20:24

Re: In Soviet Russia, god abandons you! (Overworld god)

njvack wrote:I'm not as sold on the idea of a god getting weaker and weaker (in absolute terms) as the game goes on. That system might be more interesting in a starting God -- you trade an easier early game for no divine support in the late game.

Getting excommunicated after a given time might just mean I don't do anything challenging when I'm close to wrath time -- it'd suck to suddenly get wrathed in Zot:5, so I'd wait it out in the easiest place I could find.

The benefits would be the same at all piety levels. There's just a limited time to make use of them.

The wrath does not end until you die, win, or escape the dungeon without the orb.

So the power of the benefits needs to be such that you can realistically win on the strength of those. And the wrath, while it doesn't outright kill you, is pretty close, so your game is pretty much over when the starting piety (full piety) runs out.

I'm not really sold on the thematic cohesiveness of the benefits or wrath, except bringing humans in from the overworld. Maybe all his schtick should be moving things between the overworld and the dungeon, so he hands you food and clouds of healing mist from the mountains of Gronk where his priests dwell. And he might take particularly troublesome foes away to serve him in his quarries or something.
Last edited by jejorda2 on Thursday, 14th February 2013, 20:36, edited 1 time in total.

Mines Malingerer

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Post Thursday, 14th February 2013, 20:29

Re: In Soviet Russia, god abandons you! (Overworld god)

I think you missed this part: "Quinby loses patience and excommunicates you, and you must deal with horrible wrath until you join him on the overworld (via winning or leaving the dungeon) or die."

The wrath doesn't time out. Also, I think the idea is that Quinby's abilities don't degrade with piety. The piety bar is just a timer. Quinby makes you kick ass for however long the timer is set for, but after that the game becomes incredibly hard and you have to struggle on or finish immediately.

I think it's a cool idea.

But I also think there's a problem: won't most players, on finding the altar, just say "Can I finish in time?" "Yes" -> Take the god, finish on time, never get the wrath. "No" -> Ignore the god, finish on your own schedule, never get the wrath or the buff. So it's not so much a tradeoff that you are offering the players as it is a free boost to anyone who happens to be close to the end of the game. That's kind of boring.

EDIT: NINJAD BY THE OP!

Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Thursday, 14th February 2013, 20:41

Re: In Soviet Russia, god abandons you! (Overworld god)

Yeah, that's a good point.

Maybe you get piety back every time you get a rune? So if you can keep powering thorough and get runes fast enough with the boost, you're golden. But if you fall behind (maybe you got banished?) then you're toast. So the timer is just long enough to get to the next rune. And I guess it fills all the way up each time you get another rune.

Why? Uh, maybe he is just offering you support long enough to demonstrate worthiness, then he wants you back in the overworld where he can use you.

Mines Malingerer

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Post Thursday, 14th February 2013, 20:54

Re: In Soviet Russia, god abandons you! (Overworld god)

Like anti-Chei. I suspect the time for particular runes varies, so it would be hard to get the numbers right. But assuming a wizard came and set it up perfectly ...

A god that enforces fast play, with a really sharp cut off.

A player panicking and trying to clear Tomb 3 with one star left would be pretty funny to watch :).

Obviously, the better and faster players will get more out of this god, and the slower play styles and builds won't be able to use it ... but that's kind of the point.

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Thursday, 14th February 2013, 21:25

Re: In Soviet Russia, god abandons you! (Overworld god)

I think it would be more interesting if the God became gradually weaker as you descended further and further into the Dungeon, since as you climb further down from the Dungeon, the power of the 'Overworld God' would begin to wane. In anycase, if the Time Limit is something that really wants to be included, I would probably make it so that just visiting new Dungeon Levels (excluding sub-branches) will either increase your Time Limit or Reset it.

As this God is an 'Overworld' God, he shouldn't have an Alter in the Dungeon (It wouldn't make Thematically sense that his Alter can be found underground). The only way to get this god should be by starting with him at Dungeon Start with a specific character background. If he does have Alters in the Dungeon though, then there should be some way you can use the Alter to increase your Time from them.

Also, instead of him Excommunicating you when you take too long, he should simply put you under Penance when you take too long. While under penance, the magnitude of his actions will increasingly hinder your character further and further. If you manage to grab the Orb of Zot then you are immediately taken out of Penance and there is no longer a Time Limit.

Those would be my thoughts on how to manage this God.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Thursday, 14th February 2013, 21:39

Re: In Soviet Russia, god abandons you! (Overworld god)

The time limit is really the whole point. I was thinking the time limit would be to finish the game, but blackcustard pointed out that would only be useful in limited circumstances, so I'm leaning towards a time limit for the next rune.

The overworld theme was a way to have a goal to reach. If the timer goes to the next rune, then some other theme may make more sense.

The Altar needs to be in a timed portal vault so you have to decide whether to take the diety up now or never. Otherwise, you can use it for tomb or slime or Zot instead of what the RNG picks for you. No altars in the dungeon. I guess it's a portal to his temple in the overworld.

But if we go for runes resetting the timer, maybe it can be a portal to the sixth floor of Zot, which has no staircases but has his altar. And Quinby is the evil that lurks beneath Zot, driving souls mad with lust for The Orb.

He could send Orb Guardians to support you instead of repainted hell knights.

But that would take away from the special experience of seeing Zot denizens for the first time.

And having a way to get into part of Zot without runes makes runes as keys too wishy washy.

Slime Squisher

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Post Friday, 15th February 2013, 02:23

Re: In Soviet Russia, god abandons you! (Overworld god)

I'd be a huge fan of the "Wanderer" class getting a start with Quinby, and then restructuring it so that runes granted a lot of piety and entering a new branch for the first time gave some. The idea being - you now are in a race against time from the moment you start until the end.

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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Friday, 15th February 2013, 02:32

Re: In Soviet Russia, god abandons you! (Overworld god)

Entering new branches for piety would work, since it would only work so many times and you'd eventually run out. But that might step on Ash piety a little too much. Maybe it's different enough overall not to be a problem.

Another "race against time" idea I had was a player species that starts out with maybe a million hit points (base the number on the turn count of the fastest wins) and loses one HP every turn with no natural healing. Aptitudes would be +12 across the board, but skills degrade over time so you can't stay good at everything. Probably couldn't take a god or use regen. There would be an upper limit to damage from a single torment, I guess.
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Barkeep

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Post Friday, 15th February 2013, 02:53

Re: In Soviet Russia, god abandons you! (Overworld god)

That sounds more like a Sprint variant than a normal Crawl race...
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Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 15th February 2013, 18:54

Re: In Soviet Russia, god abandons you! (Overworld god)

BountyHunterSAx wrote:I'd be a huge fan of the "Wanderer" class getting a start with Quinby, and then restructuring it so that runes granted a lot of piety and entering a new branch for the first time gave some. The idea being - you now are in a race against time from the moment you start until the end.


I'd be sad to lose the Wanderer class. I enjoy it as a palate-cleanser.

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Halls Hopper

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Post Wednesday, 20th February 2013, 08:43

Re: In Soviet Russia, god abandons you! (Overworld god)

All in all, great concept. I really like the flavor of Quinby, god of the Overworld. As previously mentioned, I think his Altar should be a timed portal witch brings you to his temple somewhere "outside" the dungeon. As if his followers opened a gateway to the underworld in search of worthy adventurers/champions to bring to the light. I also really like the idea that Quinby wants you close to him (surface) and will punish you if you persist going down. So capricious and godlike.

Of course, there should be a way to regain piety (...like getting a rune or something) without breaking the game or defeating the idea (...being that you should feel, as a player, on a tight schedule). Yeah...like this a lot. Piety gain should perhaps not be a complete reset of the clock (not sure how to efficiently implement this, but there is a way to make it work). In the end, piety should be managed as a resource, forcing the player to press on.

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