The Tavern

I'm not trying to min-max, but I just wanted to find out something.

1 - FACT: Elves get a bonus to Elven items.

2 - FACT (from description): Spriggans are small, magical creatures distantly related to Elves.

3 - QUESTION: Do Spriggans benefit from items of Elven origin?

4 - QUESTION: If not, should they? Should they benefit more than a non-Elf, but less than an Elf?

3 - Nah

4 - Nah.

Elven items tend to be stealthier than other stuff, and sprigs are primarily stealth builds, so that helps a smidge. According to Henzell, some elven stuff actually weighs less, which I suppose helps in that most spriggans have low strength and carrying capacity.

XuaXua wrote:I'm not trying to min-max, but I just wanted to find out something.

1 - FACT: Elves get a bonus to Elven items.

2 - FACT (from description): Spriggans are small, magical creatures distantly related to Elves.

3 - QUESTION: Do Spriggans benefit from items of Elven origin?

4 - QUESTION: If not, should they? Should they benefit more than a non-Elf, but less than an Elf?

IMHO, they quite overpowered as it is right now

Yeah, the accuracy bonus is a piddling bonus for elves anyway, a half of that bonus would be truly insignificant. The stealth and light-weight aspects of elven gear are good for spriggans anyway.

They can't even wear most of it anyways. No boots gloves or armor. That leaves weapons, cloaks and robes I guess. Daggers hardly need an accuracy boost, let alone a tiny one. Elven cloaks give stealth to everyone anyways. Robes don't impede spellcasting (The main 'elven' benefit in my opinion) anyways, so that bonus is useless. And they have no AC to improve so that bonus would be useless too.

I was unaware of how insignificant the race-brand bonuses for the races that use them.

XuaXua wrote:I was unaware of how insignificant the race-brand bonuses for the races that use them.

To be clear, the Elven bonus is generally good for elves (who are likely to be casters or hybrids), just not much moreso than for non-elves (i.e. the additional +accuracy, etc. are rarely noticeable.)

I think only the Elven bonus is that way (and perhaps the Demonspawn one, due to how late it appears). The Dwarven bonus for armor is pretty substantial (worth e.g. choosing Dwarven scale over regular chain in the beginning until your Armor skills up) and the Orc bonus is good too, mostly because of how many Orcish pieces you're likely to have.

In the long run, though, they're all mostly flavor (but yummy flavor though :-)

)

The dwarven and demonic bonuses for weapons are better - they are equivalent to +2 to damage, and bonuses to damage are more significant than bonuses to accuracy.

The orcish bonus for weapons can be even better IF you have high piety with Beogh. If you are not worshipping Beogh the orcish bonus on weapons is worse than the dwarven / demonic bonuses.

danr wrote:The orcish bonus for weapons can be even better IF you have high piety with Beogh.

It's a requirement to worship Beogh to be an orc?

With that, the bonus seems somewhat redundant.

You don't have to worship beogh to be an orc.

If you don't worship beogh, you'll only get the equivalent of a +1 bonus to damage. With piety though the bonus can exceed the +2 that dwarves and demonspawn get.

XuaXua wrote:
danr wrote:The orcish bonus for weapons can be even better IF you have high piety with Beogh.

It's a requirement to worship Beogh to be an orc?

With that, the bonus seems somewhat redundant.

Orcs using orcish weapons have +1 to-dam as a racial bonus, another +1 by just worshipping Beogh and up to +6 when their piety is at 6*, totalling at +8. Quite a serious bonus, if you ask me.

I don't think it's quite that good, but I may have it wrong. If I do, please help me correct my spreadsheet.

Code:: if (get_equip_race(*weapon) == ISFLAG_ORCISH && you.species == SP_HILL_ORC) { if (you.religion == GOD_BEOGH && !player_under_penance()) { #ifdef DEBUG_DIAGNOSTICS const int orig_damage = damage; #endif if (you.piety > 80 || coinflip()) damage++; damage += random2avg( div_rand_round( std::min(static_cast<int>(you.piety), 180), 33), 2); #ifdef DEBUG_DIAGNOSTICS mprf(MSGCH_DIAGNOSTICS, "Damage: %d -> %d, Beogh bonus: %d", orig_damage, damage, damage - orig_damage); #endif } if (coinflip()) damage++; }

Only the last one applies if you are not worshipping Beogh. It's actually not +1, but a 50% chance of +1, so I treat it as +0.5 in my spreadsheet.

Then, if you have piety over 80 (I think thats *** or ****), you get another 50% chance of +1, for effectively another +0.5.

Then, it twice rolls a random number up to your piety or 180, whichever is lower, and divides that by 33, and averages both rolls. Assuming you roll 180 both times, the max you get is +5 as I assume it is rounded.

So the maximum bonus you could get is +7. However, that's a randomized bonus, so the average bonus you would get as an orc with max piety is equivalent to +0,+4, which is twice as good as the demonic / dwarven bonuses.

My apologies - I should probably do a bit of sourcediving before relying on Henzell's learndb too heavily ...

No apologies needed - most games do not require you to read the source code to understand game mechanics. IMHO the game should not even require you to go to outside sources (learndb, chaosforge wiki).

I wonder why orcish gear does not have any effect for non-orcs. Even slim one.
Elven gear boosts stealth, restricts casting less.
Dwarven gear corrodes less, restricts casting more.
Orcish gear just smells very foul I guess =)

Orcish gear is bloody common, for one. It shouldn't have too good an effect. It could be really cheap in shops, maybe.

danr wrote:Orcish gear is bloody common, for one. It shouldn't have too good an effect. It could be really cheap in shops, maybe.

You mean cheaper than non-racial? Good idea.

I must add that elf/dwarf racial effects hard to call "too good"
They add more flavor than utility :roll:

Curio wrote:I wonder why orcish gear does not have any effect for non-orcs. Even slim one.

They have an increased chance of +dam and -acc. That applies to everyone.

So THAT'S why I find so many -1,+1 orcish weapons! Good to know!

On those lines, maybe elven should have a better chance of being +acc, and dwarven more likely to be +dam?

Elven weapons are up to +2 acc, dwarven weapons are up to +1 acc, +1 dam (and +1 AC on armours).

JeffQyzt wrote:
Curio wrote:I wonder why orcish gear does not have any effect for non-orcs. Even slim one.

They have an increased chance of +dam and -acc. That applies to everyone.

Hm, cool - didn't know that.
But I mostly meant orcish armour. Does it do something specific for non-orcs?

Curio wrote:But I mostly meant orcish armour. Does it do something specific for non-orcs?

Nothing special. Even the bonus for orcs is marginal unless you're a Beoghite with decent piety. The only "advantage" is that so many of them get generated that you're more likely to find magical orcish armour than non-orcish.

The Tavern

Do Spriggans get Elven-make Bonuses?

Do Spriggans get Elven-make Bonuses?

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