Summon player clone


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Temple Termagant

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Joined: Wednesday, 5th September 2012, 04:39

Post Thursday, 17th January 2013, 09:32

Summon player clone

A summoning spell that creates a weaker, non-spellcasting clone of the player would be interesting for hybrids. The clone would be melee only, and its melee skill, weapon, armor and shield would be based on the player's like a player ghost. It would reward spellcasters which also wear heavy armor and fight in melee. Something like Mara's clones, but much weaker.

Spell: Summon imprint, Summoning 5 (?)
Description: This spell creates a mindless spectral imprint of the caster (including equipment) that fades after some time. The imprint is too unintelligent to cast spells or do anything other than attack foes in melee combat, but does so with the full skill of the caster.

Halls Hopper

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Joined: Sunday, 15th April 2012, 08:40

Post Thursday, 17th January 2013, 10:05

Re: Summon player clone

kaikaun wrote:A summoning spell that creates a weaker, non-spellcasting clone of the player would be interesting for hybrids. The clone would be melee only, and its melee skill, weapon, armor and shield would be based on the player's like a player ghost. It would reward spellcasters which also wear heavy armor and fight in melee. Something like Mara's clones, but much weaker.

Spell: Summon imprint, Summoning 5 (?)
Description: This spell creates a mindless spectral imprint of the caster (including equipment) that fades after some time. The imprint is too unintelligent to cast spells or do anything other than attack foes in melee combat, but does so with the full skill of the caster.


It would get little use in the 3-runers, as melee dudes don't usually rely on summoning and spellcasters' melee is pitiful at best. In the post-end game it will be way too OP. Imagine a TSO guy summoning two angels and one clone of himself with the full damage of his +9 triple sword :)

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Thursday, 17th January 2013, 12:49

Re: Summon player clone

I could see this more as a god ability than anything else, but maybe with the ability to cast some spells.

Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Thursday, 17th January 2013, 13:33

Re: Summon player clone

So basically, you want to be Mara.

Dungeon Master

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Post Thursday, 17th January 2013, 13:41

Re: Summon player clone

In a lot of ways, isn't this basically casting Tukima's Dance?
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Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Thursday, 17th January 2013, 14:32

Re: Summon player clone

Lasty wrote:In a lot of ways, isn't this basically casting Tukima's Dance?

No? Like, not at all?
Your warning level: [CLASSIFIED]

Dungeon Master

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Post Thursday, 17th January 2013, 14:42

Re: Summon player clone

ebarrett wrote:
Lasty wrote:In a lot of ways, isn't this basically casting Tukima's Dance?

No? Like, not at all?


It summons a clone of you that can only use your weapon to bash things. Tukima's Dance makes your weapon go off and mindlessly bash things on its own. Surely you can see the similarity.

Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Thursday, 17th January 2013, 14:49

Re: Summon player clone

"Has some similarity" is extremely far off from "basically is the same as". Both the offense and defence of the two scenarios are very different. The only similarity is that they use the same weapon stats. I can't even say 'use the same weapon' as Tukima's Dance doesn't 'clone' it, unlike this proposed spell.

Dungeon Master

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Post Thursday, 17th January 2013, 15:26

Re: Summon player clone

Seems to fulfill essentially the same function to me, but it seems like several people disagree. Fair enough.

Crypt Cleanser

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Joined: Thursday, 9th August 2012, 20:23

Post Thursday, 17th January 2013, 15:27

Re: Summon player clone

I think such a spell would be dangerous if it cast spells - imagine if you learned Fireball or Lightning Bolt and the clone had that. Something that might be good about this is that it could work like the clones of Rahkasha in that you can't tell the clone and the real thing apart. IE, you cast it and then monsters get opened up to Tier 3 Stabs because they are distracted by your Clone which they think is you.
A Google Doc I wrote up in regards to making a new 'workable' definition for the Roguelike Genre:
Defining the Roguelike Genre

Tomb Titivator

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Post Thursday, 17th January 2013, 15:32

Re: Summon player clone

Tiber wrote:I could see this more as a god ability than anything else, but maybe with the ability to cast some spells.


Maybe (some kind of version of) this could be the ability to make Chei suck less. I mean, not having haste is not that big of a deal if there are two of you (for a large piety cost and/or other drawbacks).

I started thinking this as a joke but I'm not sure I'm kidding anymore.

Vaults Vanquisher

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Location: U.S.

Post Thursday, 17th January 2013, 15:54

Re: Summon player clone

Tukima's Dance takes away your weapon, and doesn't scale in effectiveness with your character's melee combat ability.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 17th January 2013, 20:56

Re: Summon player clone

Let's make a spell that summons the strongest melee monster in the game. I can't think of any reason that could possibly be bad. And let's make it level 5, so it's even easier to cast than Haste but multiplies damage output by 2 instead of 1.5. And if we want to run, it has the highest AC and EV of any monster in the game and a whole bunch of resistances so it'll block that corridor for a really long time.

For this message the author KoboldLord has received thanks:
Psieye

Temple Termagant

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Post Thursday, 17th January 2013, 21:40

Re: Summon player clone

I think the idea has some merit, because it would feel cool to have a copy of yourself. I would prefer to have a fully functional and permantent copy, though.

The price could be that you forever loose a part of yourself (for example a permanent 20% reduction of your HP, MP, str, int and dex)
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Slime Squisher

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Post Thursday, 17th January 2013, 21:43

Re: Summon player clone

Dacke wrote:I think the idea has some merit, because it would feel cool to have a copy of yourself. I would prefer to have a fully functional and permantent copy, though.

The price could be that you forever loose a part of yourself (for example a permanent 20% reduction of your HP, MP, str, int and dex)


Kind of a steep prize considering how non-permanent permanent companions tend to be in crawl... It just strikes me as really difficult to implement (there is absolutely nothing resembling an intelligent monster in the game) and incredibly hard to balance.

Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Thursday, 17th January 2013, 21:52

Re: Summon player clone

Dacke wrote:it would feel cool to have a copy of yourself. I would prefer to have a fully functional and permantent copy, though.
Say hello to Mara when you meet him. If you're nice, maybe he'll grant your wish for you.

Your copy may try to kill you. All you wished for was a copy, not an ally.

Temple Termagant

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Joined: Thursday, 10th January 2013, 09:51

Post Thursday, 17th January 2013, 22:04

Re: Summon player clone

If you add a recall ability and the new summon changes (summons try escape with you) it may be possible to keep it alive for some time. Making it "permanent" is mostly a matter of flavour though; as it would be nice to (at least in theory) be able to keep a powerful clone around.

The steepness of the price would obviously be a matter of balance (make it 10%, only reduce HP/MP, etc.). But the basic idea is to make the cost permanent, making it more of a panic-button (or possibly a permanent friend) rather than a spamable ability.

I also support the idea of making it a high-tier god ability, in which case a big piety cost could be added. It would also make it easier to balance, as you can balance the god as a whole (rather than having to balance it as a single spell against all other spells)

@Psieye, if you want to get technical: Mara's copy isn't permanent ;)

Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Thursday, 17th January 2013, 23:08

Re: Summon player clone

What if it made two copies: A permanent hostile copy, and a summoned friendly copy?

Or what if it always started with 1hp, didn't heal naturally, and had to be brought to maxhp with healing wand charges?

Crypt Cleanser

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Joined: Thursday, 9th August 2012, 20:23

Post Friday, 18th January 2013, 01:02

Re: Summon player clone

I'd just Give it 1 HP, set AC to 0, and make it Torment Immune. Couple this with the idea I mentioned above with it grabbing attention of monsters (and thus monsters quickly dispatching it) and the Offensive Potential for it dwindles quite a bit.
A Google Doc I wrote up in regards to making a new 'workable' definition for the Roguelike Genre:
Defining the Roguelike Genre

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