Higher total score with 14 runes instead of 15?

[Turgon]

Recently I repeatedly saw players discussing about going for 14 runes to get a higher total score, ditching the golden rune.

Indeed, going to tomb is expensive in terms of turncounts (compared to hell runes e.g.), especially if you play a living char and have to rest after torment.

I appreciate the limitation of runes, the fixed number of 15 runes was introduced some years ago. If players want to win the game with 3 or 4 runes that's alright. But for a great score it should be mandatory to get all the runes imo.

So my question is: is it possible to increase (again) the score of a 15-runer compared to fewer runes?

[Blade]

The top 6 and 32 of the top 35 scores online are 15-runers.

/thread

[Kalma]

It's only an issue for pretty low turn counts. For "normal" length games getting max runes scores higher.
Plot

[njvack]

I couldn't find a point where the lines cross on that plot. Am I missing something

[dassem]

Ah, that's a very nice answer!

I guess the question is: How many turns does it take you to do tomb? If I understand the graph, you should mentally shift the lower curve right by that amount and look at where they cross. I think?

[some12fat2move]

I believe the x-axis is turns and the y-axis is score, and the lower line represents 14 runes while the upper line represents 15 runes. So if I'm reading it correctly, 100k turns with 14 runes would be the same score as 120k turns with 15 runes. And 30k turns with 14 runes would be the same points as 35k turns with 15 runes.

[ebarrett]

I've done tomb in ~800 turns a few times (without torment resistance), so that "ditch tomb" theory is officially bananas. Maybe you need to see discussions from better players.

[sanka]

The top score in CAO finished the game in 21895 turns. Between entering the Crypt (10314) and obtaining the Golden rune (11789) less then 1500 turns were spent. The score would be much less if the rune and the turns were skipped.

[Jeremiah]

Maybe those games were done using Projected Noise, which apparently 'trivialised' tomb. Now it's been removed it might not be possible to get the rune so quickly.

[crate]

You should probably check the logs of the high score games before you claim they used projected noise....

[some12fat2move]

OT: Is there any way to watch those games? I've heard a few references to footv for watching stuff but I have no idea what that is.

[Jabberwocky]

https://crawl.develz.org/learndb/#footv

[some12fat2move]

https://crawl.develz.org/learndb/#footv

No idea what telnet is and the link appears to just take me where I can watch games in progress.
EDIT: googling telnet helped. I think I can figure it out from here.
EDIT: nope, still haven't found a way to request games. In cmd I do telnet termcast.develz.org, but then it won't accept any further instructions (except choosing one of the active games or q to quit).

[Galefury]

footv is also available via browser on http://termcast.develz.org/

(This is awesome, thanks to whoever did that)

[some12fat2move]

footv is also available via browser on http://termcast.develz.org/

(This is awesome, thanks to whoever did that)

Well that looks like exactly what I get when I do telnet termcast.develz.org in the command line, but with the same problem...how do I request a game that's not on that list of active ones?

[Galefury]

Those are all old games, on the various tv channels. For example &TV shows kills by hellpanlords, BotTV shows games by bots, and so on. FooTV is the only channel that shows games on demand (FightClub is for arena requests, but doesn't show recorded games). You can request things in ##crawl by adding -tv to a !lg or !lm query that gets you the desired game or milestone. Using !lg shows the last few turns before the end of the game, !lm starts playback around the requested milestone. The number of turns before and after can be adjusted. The documentation for !lg and !lm is a bit unwieldy, but if you ask in ##crawl someone might help you dig up something you want to watch.

By the way, you probably shouldn't watch full games on FooTV, other people might want to use it too. There are programs that can replay ttyrecs, but I don't have any experience with that.

[some12fat2move]

All right, now it's starting to make sense to me. But what is ##crawl and how do I get there?

[Jabberwocky]

##crawl is the crawl IRC.

[some12fat2move]

Learned many new things today: telnet, IRC, and how necromutation speeds up tomb. Thanks fellas!