Dwarven Shields?

[DuxOrbis]

In the shields section there is a section describing the shield skill bonus for various racial shields:

"For a physical shield (Buckler, Shield and Large Shield), Block is the shield's blocking value, equal to the base shield bonus (3 for Buckler, 5 for Shield, 7 for Large Shield), increased by 5% per Shield Skill, by 13% for dwarven shields (27% for dwarves), by 7% for elves wearing elven shields and by 13% for orcs wearing orcish shields (up to 30% for high-piety followers of Beogh)."

I noticed the whopping 13% for dwarven shields, almost triple normal shields. I can't figure out how to Wizard mode racial items, but at 15 shields a normal shield gives 27 SH for a HuFi. I have just gotten a Dwarven Shield on a legit DsWz, and will eventually get 15 shields to test it out, if I survive that is!

No relevant information on racial bonuses to shields on the knowledge bots either.

EDIT: Finally made a shop with a +0 dwarven shield. Turns out at all levels the SH value is simply one more than regular shields. Hmm...

[some12fat2move]

It's also based on your STR and DEX, which wizards are pretty low on and fighters are pretty high on. That could skew the results a bit (or a lot, I'm not sure how big the impact is).

[crate]

Dwarven shields do give a bit more sh than other shields. It's easy enough to notice in-game. It's not really a big deal, since it's usually the equivalent of enchanting a non-dwarven shield (which is also not very useful).

[edlothiol]

almost triple normal shields.

I think you're misunderstanding the formula. "increased by 13%" means that you get 13% of the base shield value (i.e. 13% of 5 for normal shields) added to your blocking value.

[DuxOrbis]

It seems it isn't as beneficial as I thought! Thanks!

There seems to be a lot of contention about the usefulness of shields vs. killing things faster with heavier weapons. Shields always give me a nice edge as I tend not to find great two handers, and as a caster hybrid rely on melee to get me out of sticky situations. Oh well. Maybe Crawl will get reformed to figure out a balance that makes everyone happy eventually!

[DuxOrbis]

almost triple normal shields.

I think you're misunderstanding the formula. "increased by 13%" means that you get 13% of the base shield value (i.e. 13% of 5 for normal shields) added to your blocking value.

I was aware of that. I simply said the value was triple that of the normal, which is true. I just wanted to find out if that formula, ie. (.13*15)(8)=15.6, vs (.05*15)(8)=6 did anything for SH. It turns out it gives about +1 SH. But that means that the blocking value and SH values are different, so it makes me wonder, is the Block value like GDR in that it makes more difference than AC behind the scenes.

This is one of those times when I wondered if the transparency of Crawl is failing on an esoteric bit of math, that nearly triples your output for investing in the shield skill...is that true? Is the SH not accurately reflecting the ability to block?

[crate]

You're interpreting it entirely wrong. The "13%" is not how much you get per shield skill level--that's always 5% regardless of your shield. The 13% is an additional bonus (and I have no idea if the number is correct or anything; in practice it is about 2-3 more sh at most) that is added at a different time.

The "blocking value" and the displayed SH are exactly the same.

is the Block value like GDR in that it makes more difference than AC behind the scenes.

GDR is "behind the scenes" because if people never told you it existed you might well not notice. It is a nice bonus but it is not something you need to understand and in fact knowing it exists is probably more likely to confuse you than to help you. This is why Crawl hides it.

It seems this dwarven bonus is in fact working the same way ... the fact you know it exists now is confusing you more than it is helping you!

[DuxOrbis]

Ah, well then discussion over.

The reason that I do find it necessary to know, besides curiosity, is that dwarven armour is explicit about it being difficult to cast in, while racial secondary armor doesn't matter, shields also have a casting penalty that is unclear if modified by dwarven status. The not-explicit part is that dwarven armour gives a bit of an effective armour bonus, which I was unsure the parallel with racial shields.

The point is that a few extra SH is the result, casting penalty won't matter at 15-16 shields anyway, so it doesn't matter to me. Will choose dwarven shields if given the chance, if only for the better resistance to acids.

[some12fat2move]

dwarven armour is explicit about it being difficult to cast in

I'm curious, does this apply to dwarven shields as well?

[crate]

dwarven armour is explicit about it being difficult to cast in

I'm curious, does this apply to dwarven shields as well?

It doesn't. Easy enough to see when you equip one and your spell success is the same as with a different type of shield.