High Piety Ghosts

[TwilightPhoenix]

Edit: Misclicked submit, typing up as you read this.

Not sure if this was ever brought up before, but it could be pretty nifty if ghosts of characters with very high piety, say no less than one pip from max, could generate ghosts that are somehow "enhanced" by the gods they worshipped, adding additional flavor and perhaps additional challenge. Or perhaps even lower piety character ghosts could benefit except with lesser abilities or purely cosmetic changes. Feel free to disagree with what I think each god can do for their ghosts (some gods I'm not very familiar with), but here's some ideas of what I think could happen.

Ashenzari: Always knows where you are at and can see invisible and has clarity. Maybe can even curse your gear through some method, such as melee attacks?

Beogh: Can smite the player and may have Orcs have appropriate difficulty to the depth

[TwilightPhoenix]

Ok, here we go. Ignore the above entries on Ash and the incomplete one on Beogh. It seems there's a lockout timer on editing. That sucks. :/

Ashenzari: Always knows where you are at and can see invisible and has clarity. Maybe can even curse your gear through some method, such as melee attacks? Although it won't be friendly, maybe high piety followers of Ashenzari can get LOS from the ghost, including seeing invisible in its LOS?

Beogh: Can smite the player and may have Orcs have appropriate difficulty to the depth paying respects to the fallen saint. Maybe neutral if the player is a high piety Beogh follower?

Cheibriados: Moves slowly, but can does extra damage the bigger the speed difference is between the player and the ghost. Is also probably rather durable too.

Elyvilon: Referred to as a "holy spirit" or some such and is considered a holy being instead of being undead. Always unarmed and neutral unless you're an evil species, follow an evil god, or perform "evil acts", such as casting necromancy, within its LOS. May avoid conflict unless provoked and may heal non-evil monsters around it (and perhaps the player on rare occasions and/or if they're following a good god). This may be a bit much, but perhaps if the player is a high piety followed of a good god, the ghost will be an ally (but won't leave the floor) and follow the player healing them from time to time? That might make a floor an ez-mode though.

Fedhas: Fungus and maybe even spores spawn near where the ghost starts on the floor, as Fedhas would have decomposed the corpse. Can walk through and fire through plants and ally plants will not attack them. If the player is undead, may attempt to decompose them, aka an alternate flavor of Dispel Undead.

Jiyva: Generated with zero gear (eaten by slimes) and is a slime itself (not undead, etc.) Has acidic attacks, can eat floor items, and can split. Perhaps has mutagenic attacks or can split off allies when damaged? Is neutral to Jiyvites and, if generated, needs to be killed along with the Royal Jelly (and any other Jiyva ghosts) to erase Jiyva from existence. If Jiyva is killed before encountering it, it cannot be generated. Maybe undead Jiyvites can create Jiyva ghosts?

Kiku: Can invoke torment and attacks are pain branded. May also know necromancy spells, even if the player didn't know them.

Lugonu: Can blink and has distortion branded attacks. Maybe space occasionally distorts in its vicinity, making minor cosmetic changes to the dungeon and popping out a demon appropriate to depth. Maybe even have Lugonu follower ghosts only spawn in the Abyss? If not, maybe can banish?

Makhleb: Heals when killing things, such as player summons. Can toss around minor/major destruction and summon minor/major servants.

Nemelex Xobeh: Ghost doesn't have any equipment (Nemelex took it all). Instead carries a deck of Destruction and/or Deck of Summoning and uses those in lieu of attacks, though it can still cast any spells it knows.

Okawaru: Has Heroism and Finesse.

Sif Muna: Ghost knows more spells than other ghosts. Maybe also fights exclusively with magic?

The Shining One: Player ghost is instead an angel of sorts and is treated as a holy being instead of being undead. At least neutral or friendly to players following good gods. Has a halo, holy wrath branded attack, and can invoke cleansing flame.

Trog: Can berserk, despite being a ghost. Never knows magic and is resistant to magic attacks. Perhaps has a few brothers in arms paying respects to the ghost, who will promptly show proper respect by going berserk and bashing the player's face in?

Vehumet: All spell-slots for ghosts are available, but instead can only have conjuration and summoning spells in them. Can shoot spells from farther away. Maybe only fights with spells?

Xom: Xom is Xom. Does random Xom effects to the ghost and perhaps the player while the two are in LOS (so Xom doesn't kill the ghost before you ever meet it). More likely to do good effects to you and bad to the ghost if you prove to be more amusing while you are in the ghost's LOS. Maybe has Chaos branded attacks?

Yred: Spawns with a named zombie/skeleton in addition to the ghost (death flavor text says he reanimated you) that is generated with similar types of weapon and armor (aka if the player was wearing a randart executioner's axe and wearing randart plate mail when they died, the skele/zombie will spawn with any old axe and heavy armor that can be generated at that depth, maybe even a lowly hand axe and chain mail). May also animate nearby dead, summon undead servants occasionally, and attacks are draining branded. Maybe mirror damage? Maybe can enslave the players soul, creating a ghostly duo if the player is killed by this ghost?

Zin: At least neutral to followers of good gods, is a holy spirit or some such instead of a ghost (holy being instead of being undead). Can recite and imprison the player. Attacks are also silver-branded, similar to the ammo, and do increased damage against more heavily mutated players (and polymorphed allies).

[KoboldLord]

Uh, keep in mind that you typically max out piety around early Lair. Do your typical pre-Lair, pre-Orc characters have the ability to deal with these suggestions?

[TwilightPhoenix]

For the most part, yes so long as certain abilities are scaled to the appropriate level (such as Cleansing Flame), perhaps by using the ghost's HD. Aka, a level 4 high piety TSO ghost wouldn't blast nearly as hard as a level 14 one. But it all, to me, sounds like stuff uniques can typically do anyway (or similar to) around then and basically some characters will have problems with certain types and breeze past others, and vice versa. The only one that sounds particularly nasty is Jiyva, but it's unlikely you'll find a Jiyva altar before lair and uncommon to find one outside of the Slime Pits.

And, some of the ideas are written as suggestions because I'm not sure if they're good ideas or a bit much. Yred ghosts being able to mirror damage might be a little much, for example. But, I suspect if the devs grabbed this idea and ran with it, they'd do something else with the ghosts that would be equally or more awesome than what I've thought up of.

[evilmike]

I like the idea of giving ghosts some god related abilities, but it should be treated with caution. For example, beogh ghosts could be given smite as one of their spells, but it would be a real nightmare if high piety makhleb ghosts were all given greater demon. Your ideas are pretty interesting, though.

I would also suggest that such abilities be tied not just to the character's piety, but also (perhaps moreso) on their invocations skill, for the gods that use it. Take chei, for example: it's fairly easy to reach ***** or ****** piety with him, but getting all of his abilities usable takes a little bit more work. It would probably be reasonable for ghosts to only use god abilities that were at "great" or "excellent" when the player died, because that's what most players usually aim for. I know a lower threshold is used for spells (I think ghosts get them if they are at "fair") but god abilities work differently from spells, and "fair" can often be attained with little or no training of invocations.

[Tiber]

The idea has some merit, but ghosts of gods who forbid undead retaining their powers doesn't make sense to me. A Shining One ghost becoming an angel -maybe-, but the Elyvilon, Fedhas, and Zin don't really fit to me. An alternate interpretation is that based on their speech, ghosts seem to me like unhinged versions of their former selves.
A Shining One ghost might gain an intense hatred for all that is good, possibly even becoming a demon, and/or reducing the bonus holy attacks do to him.
An Elyvilon ghost might be able to reduce the effectiveness of all forms of healing.
A Zin follower, I can't think of much besides gaining a mutation attack, but that might be a bit much.
A Fedhas ghost could still go through plants (being a ghost and all), but might have an ability to destroy plants.

[ohmi]

In the spirit (hee hee) of this discussion, why not have ghosts behave differently based on the god/piety of the character too?
Some examples:
Good vs Evil gods -- attack (ghost beserk if ghost god == Trog)

Same god: if player piety < ghost piety: small piety grant, ghost disappears.
If player piety > ghost piety: ghost ignores player, doesn't get deleted. Player loses piety if attacks.
If player under penance: half-strength attack.

Ghost god was renounced: full-on attack.

Unaligned vs Good: attack if player piety < ghost piety
Unaligned vs Evil: normal attack

Xom vs Any: random behavior