new proposal for an elimental mage in all 4 type


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Lair Larrikin

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Joined: Tuesday, 9th October 2012, 15:03

Post Thursday, 1st November 2012, 15:13

new proposal for an elimental mage in all 4 type

Archon/elemental

Back story-
A wizard was practicing summoning and other spells and accidently cast a spell and made it permanent*he was then murdered by his creation. It feed off his magic and became what he is now. Over many years of seclusion and feeding off the magic naturally in the land it learned how to talk and make others like himself.
He wants the orb because it’s the ultimate power and can keep him sustained for the rest of his life.

Natural Abilities-
Polymorph Other cost 1 max Mp
Permanent Enslave cost 3max Mp
MR++ because it made of magic
mR+ it’s hard to manipulate magic to make it look different
Poison immune how do you poison a being made out of magic
Doesn’t eat or drink
Naturally float has permanent levitation
Too large to fit into most armors
Tends to lose control of its elemental capabilities when fighting extra attack
Can’t worship “good” gods because there seen as unholy
Trog despises because they are made of magic
Refilled magic after killing an enemy that uses magic
Can’t go berserk
Average heal regeneration
High mana regeneration


Hp -1
Mp+3 or +2 which ever has more balance
Gains 1 int every 3 levels


Fighting-1
Short -2
Long-2
Mace/Flail-2
Pole arms-2
Staves 0
Throw-1
Sling-2
Bow-2
Crossbow-2
Armor-3
Dodging 0
Stealth -3
Stabbing-1
Shields-3
Traps & Doors 0
Unarmed+2
Spell Casting+3
Conjurations+2
Hexes-1
Charms-1
Summoning+2
Necromancer-3
Translocation-2
Transmutation-4
Fire Magic+4
Ice Magic+4
Air Magic+4
Earth Magic+4
Poison Magic-4
Invocations+1
Evocations 0

after making this thought to my self realy needs some nerfing i love cretics <--- so not spelled right but all addvice taken
im very imaginitive and enjoy creating newstuff but i need to work on showing it

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 1st November 2012, 15:20

Re: new proposal for an elimental mage in all 4 type

If you play a summoner, or wizard casting summoning spells, and go Sif Muna, you have an easy game. Remove hunger costs for channeling and casting spells, and you quite possibly have the easiest character in Crawl. This is already an overpowered strategy for Mummies, despite bad aptitudes - this is basically the same, with exceptionally good magical aptitudes. I'm afraid there's no balance to this proposal. It's kind of like the child of a deep elf and a mummy, combining the advantages of both and adding high MP regeneration. The drawbacks are there, but they don't penalise most spellcasters (for instance, who cares if they can't wear armour?). We already have several species which are really good spellcasters. In conclusion, even if this was balanced it wouldn't really add anything new to the game.
(Also, Game Design Discussion is where topics like this go.)
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Lair Larrikin

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Joined: Tuesday, 9th October 2012, 15:03

Post Thursday, 1st November 2012, 15:23

Re: new proposal for an elimental mage in all 4 type

i wasnt paying attention when i click kinda figured it was way opped when i made it
but its my first one and put like 1 hour of thought into it sso theres a lot that can ge changed
im very imaginitive and enjoy creating newstuff but i need to work on showing it

Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Tuesday, 28th June 2011, 20:41

Location: Berlin

Post Thursday, 1st November 2012, 15:25

Re: new proposal for an elimental mage in all 4 type

If you want to make a new species, you need to have some kind of goal in mind. In other words, ask yourself "what is Crawl missing?" and then try to fill that hole. This is just yet another spellcasting species, and we have enough of these (mummy, sludge elf, high elf, draconian, naga, and many more all excel at being primary spellcasters, even pure spellcasters), so if the concept wasn't fundamentally changed it really has no place in the game. The new thing it introduces has to be something new in gameplay, not flavour, so if there was a species with a backstory completely different than that of ghouls, but that played exactly like ghouls, it wouldn't get in either.
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Lair Larrikin

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Post Thursday, 1st November 2012, 15:27

Re: new proposal for an elimental mage in all 4 type

what i wqas relly going for when i first strated thing about it was a FE but then i thouhgt you know it waould be prety cool to have a mage that can use all of them
im very imaginitive and enjoy creating newstuff but i need to work on showing it

Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Tuesday, 28th June 2011, 20:41

Location: Berlin

Post Thursday, 1st November 2012, 15:30

Re: new proposal for an elimental mage in all 4 type

Sounds like you would enjoy playing deep elves, then. Or humans, draconians, nagas, demonspawn, etc. to a lesser extent - they are all strong as fire elementalists, ice elementalists, air elementalists, earth elementalists... you can also use multiple elemental schools with them, if you want, but this usually isn't a good idea, because the four elemental schools pretty much do the same thing.

Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Thursday, 1st November 2012, 15:31

Re: new proposal for an elimental mage in all 4 type

It was said elsewhere a number of times: all the standard concepts are already thoroughly and redundantly covered by the existing races. There is no room for "more of the same" so all new race proposals need to be radically different.

For example, to make this archon proposal have any chance of being taken seriously, it'd need something messed up like "cannot read spellbooks". It can't learn magic the normal way, it has to cast spells that are only periodically available to it. Don't take this suggestion seriously either, I don't see any way of making it actually feasible. I was just illustrating how far out you'd have to go to make a successful new race proposal. "Can cast all 4 elemental schools" really isn't that big a deal - 'cool' yes but that alone really really does not make a deal.
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Lair Larrikin

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Joined: Tuesday, 9th October 2012, 15:03

Post Thursday, 1st November 2012, 15:34

Re: new proposal for an elimental mage in all 4 type

ya like i said at the bottom of my post it was way opped but im really going to put some extra thought in to how to make it i strated to think aboput it when i put it on word and and look at it
im very imaginitive and enjoy creating newstuff but i need to work on showing it
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Lair Larrikin

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Joined: Tuesday, 9th October 2012, 15:03

Post Thursday, 1st November 2012, 15:38

Re: new proposal for an elimental mage in all 4 type

Psieye wrote:It was said elsewhere a number of times: all the standard concepts are already thoroughly and redundantly covered by the existing races. There is no room for "more of the same" so all new race proposals need to be radically different.

For example, to make this archon proposal have any chance of being taken seriously, it'd need something messed up like "cannot read spellbooks". It can't learn magic the normal way, it has to cast spells that are only periodically available to it. Don't take this suggestion seriously either, I don't see any way of making it actually feasible. I was just illustrating how far out you'd have to go to make a successful new race proposal. "Can cast all 4 elemental schools" really isn't that big a deal - 'cool' yes but that alone really really does not make a deal.


those are acully spome good ideas to put in iv alread changed it some puit the air and water to 0 and lower earth to 2
the cant read books is a good idea but the only problem with that i see is how do you learn new spells be cause if i put you learn random spells over tim thats to much like demonspawns mutations
im very imaginitive and enjoy creating newstuff but i need to work on showing it

Cocytus Succeeder

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Joined: Saturday, 14th April 2012, 21:35

Post Thursday, 1st November 2012, 15:46

Re: new proposal for an elimental mage in all 4 type

odstmarine wrote:
Psieye wrote:It was said elsewhere a number of times: all the standard concepts are already thoroughly and redundantly covered by the existing races. There is no room for "more of the same" so all new race proposals need to be radically different.

For example, to make this archon proposal have any chance of being taken seriously, it'd need something messed up like "cannot read spellbooks". It can't learn magic the normal way, it has to cast spells that are only periodically available to it. Don't take this suggestion seriously either, I don't see any way of making it actually feasible. I was just illustrating how far out you'd have to go to make a successful new race proposal. "Can cast all 4 elemental schools" really isn't that big a deal - 'cool' yes but that alone really really does not make a deal.


those are acully spome good ideas to put in iv alread changed it some puit the air and water to 0 and lower earth to 2
the cant read books is a good idea but the only problem with that i see is how do you learn new spells be cause if i put you learn random spells over tim thats to much like demonspawns mutations

You now see the difficulty of making a new DCSS race. Don't even bother with trying to balance it until you've overcome the hurdle of radical-yet-feasible novelty.
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Lair Larrikin

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Joined: Tuesday, 9th October 2012, 15:03

Post Thursday, 1st November 2012, 15:53

Re: new proposal for an elimental mage in all 4 type

Psieye wrote:
odstmarine wrote:
Psieye wrote:It was said elsewhere a number of times: all the standard concepts are already thoroughly and redundantly covered by the existing races. There is no room for "more of the same" so all new race proposals need to be radically different.

For example, to make this archon proposal have any chance of being taken seriously, it'd need something messed up like "cannot read spellbooks". It can't learn magic the normal way, it has to cast spells that are only periodically available to it. Don't take this suggestion seriously either, I don't see any way of making it actually feasible. I was just illustrating how far out you'd have to go to make a successful new race proposal. "Can cast all 4 elemental schools" really isn't that big a deal - 'cool' yes but that alone really really does not make a deal.


those are acully spome good ideas to put in iv alread changed it some puit the air and water to 0 and lower earth to 2
the cant read books is a good idea but the only problem with that i see is how do you learn new spells be cause if i put you learn random spells over tim thats to much like demonspawns mutations

You now see the difficulty of making a new DCSS race. Don't even bother with trying to balance it until you've overcome the hurdle of radical-yet-feasible novelty.

a few changes i thought of in the past 10 minutes
Permanent Enslave cost 5max Mp
Tends to lose control of its elemental capabilities when fighting extra attack unarmed only
Low heal regeneration
Special skill ability cast out sight has no natural eyes and must and must cast out a friendly eye to read bookand scrolls but through all its years of living in the wilderness has learned how to sense its surroundings Cost *hunger 5mana and it takes 12 turns to do so
Hp -3
Mp+3
Traps & Doors+2
Fire Magic+4
Ice Magic 0
Air Magic 0
Earth Magic+2

maybe give it an odd form of hunger like in stead of eating or drinkin it must sap the magical essin of what it just killed
while getting rid of(Refilled magic after killing an enemy that uses magic) enimeies that use magic *feed* more
im very imaginitive and enjoy creating newstuff but i need to work on showing it

Cocytus Succeeder

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Joined: Saturday, 14th April 2012, 21:35

Post Thursday, 1st November 2012, 16:22

Re: new proposal for an elimental mage in all 4 type

I'm going to be upfront: the work you've put into this concept would see much better use as a new monster proposal than as a new player species. Something encountered in Pan or Abyss, possibly also in certain floating vaults for late D. This archon concept was born from "this'd be a cool thing to play as" and now you're trying to throw gimmicks at it to give it the requisite novelty.

Start with the novelty and everything else can be figured out later. Taking a page out of the DCSS brainstorm wiki, you could start from "a being that eats magic". It eats enchantments on equipment, charges on wands, misc items, Ambrosia and maybe elf blood (because vampires already regen mp on doing this). It will have no MP bar, it cannot reduce spell hunger and melee/ranged attacks would use up 'food' too.

Aptitudes? Equipment restrictions? Backstory? Description? Mutations? Abilities? Optimal playstyles? Size? All irrelevant until the novelty has been established as desired by the player base.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Thursday, 1st November 2012, 16:53

Re: new proposal for an elimental mage in all 4 type

Moved to game design forum.
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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Thursday, 1st November 2012, 19:26

Re: new proposal for an elimental mage in all 4 type

The misspelling hurts my eyes so badly than I may take this as trolling ...

Nonetheless I want to believe that is not, and from what I have grasped, just comment that you are mixing both a species and backgrounds all together to get a class. This is not how Crawl works.

The archon concept is fine and acceptable in some sense, I think the wiki has some content in this.
If you want this stuff for a play-style, a god would be a better option to gain this kind of state rather than from the start.
duvessa wrote:Christ, you can't remove anything without tavern complaining about it.
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Lair Larrikin

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Joined: Tuesday, 9th October 2012, 15:03

Post Thursday, 1st November 2012, 20:42

Re: new proposal for an elimental mage in all 4 type

sorry for misspells i was in a hurry to type didn't pay much attention
but when i made the aptitude i was doing it base on what i was thinking would be good and what would balance it some but i know that i need a lot of practice and time and discussion with everyone that's willing to help to make it plausible
im very imaginitive and enjoy creating newstuff but i need to work on showing it
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Pandemonium Purger

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Joined: Monday, 24th October 2011, 06:13

Post Thursday, 1st November 2012, 21:15

Re: new proposal for an elimental mage in all 4 type

odstmarine wrote:sorry for misspells i was in a hurry to type didn't pay much attention
but when i made the aptitude i was doing it base on what i was thinking would be good and what would balance it some but i know that i need a lot of practice and time and discussion with everyone that's willing to help to make it plausible


itss ok this is forum a race, so u have to post as many idea fast as po\\you can before th etimer is goint, or else spmepne isea come first and you have to say `that is th ebest one` so you stop thinkng about new ideas, and then what??? you have to think or are dead inside like dick chinny (the presidant(

when you think of a new idea ,you have to say `that is the best` HOWEVRE not everone things this is the great idea and the game has to be hard. we have to get on th dev team, u and me ocstmarine, and make this game is good again, and dwarfes,
seattle washington. friends for life. mods hate on me and devs ignore my posts. creater of exoelfs and dc:pt

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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Thursday, 1st November 2012, 21:49

Re: new proposal for an elimental mage in all 4 type

Keep calm and avoid sarcasm gentlemen...

Let's try to save or figure out some ideas and nothing else.

Thinking about a race with good apts in every element... how much good will be respect the current races/backgrounds which are impaired when learning some element ? Since practically all spells with elemental magic are combined with another school, virtually the impairment caused by some element school is avoided by training another school (conj, usually).
duvessa wrote:Christ, you can't remove anything without tavern complaining about it.
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Lair Larrikin

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Joined: Tuesday, 9th October 2012, 15:03

Post Thursday, 1st November 2012, 21:57

Re: new proposal for an elimental mage in all 4 type

well having good fire drops water so basically i just dropped water and wind so its fire and earth but I'm thinking maybe it should be fire and wind this is what i have com up with its different but not that much little steps right
Back story-
A wizard was practicing summoning and other spells and accidently cast a spell and made it permanent*he was then murdered by his creation. It feed off his magic and became what he is now. Can’t see and he wants the orb because it’s the ultimate power and can keep him sustained for the rest of his life and complete his mutation

Natural Abilities-
Permanent Enslave cost 5max Mp
Over time develops MR++ because it made of magic
mR+ it’s hard to manipulate magic to make it look different
Poison immune how do you poison a being made out of magic
Feeds on the essence of magic from enchantments and magical beings blood
Naturally has levitation over time lasts longer and with rings of levitate adds time to it
Too large to fit into most armors
Tends to lose control of its elemental capabilities when fighting extra attack unarmed only
Can’t worship “good” gods because there seen as unholy
Trog despises because they are made of magic
Can’t go berserk
Low heal regeneration
High mana regeneration
Special skill ability cast out sight has no natural eyes and must and must cast out a friendly eye to read boos and scrolls but through all its years of living in the wilder ness has learned how to sense its surroundings cast outsight would cost 5mana *hunger and take 20 turns



Hp -3
Mp+3
Gains 4 intelligence every 3 levels


Fighting-1
Short -2
Long-2
Mace/Flail-2
Pole arms-2
Staves 0
Throw-1
Sling-2
Bow-2
Crossbow-2
Armor-3
Dodging 0
Stealth -3
Stabbing-1
Shields-3
Traps & Doors+2
Unarmed+2
Spell Casting+3
Conjurations+2
Hexes-3
Charms-3
Summoning+2
Necromancer-3
Translocation-2
Transmutation-4
Fire Magic+4
Ice Magic 0
Air Magic 0
Earth Magic+2
Poison Magic-4
Invocations+1
Evocations 0
im very imaginitive and enjoy creating newstuff but i need to work on showing it
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Vaults Vanquisher

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Joined: Sunday, 11th September 2011, 00:07

Post Monday, 5th November 2012, 12:09

Re: new proposal for an elimental mage in all 4 type

Advice: if you haven't put any thought into it, don't bother posting it.

Also, using a keyboard with your face is not really recommended, for a variety of reasons.
Your warning level: [CLASSIFIED]

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