The Tavern

Sip- You should be able to take a sip of your potions, so that they last longer (or, if you are daring, are less likely to kill you). For example-

Taking a sip of a potion that would heal you for 20 health only heals you for 5 health.
Taking a sip of the equivalent poison potion (Don't ask!!!) makes you only lose 5 health.

Advanced Alchemy- Each potion has a Concentration rating from 1-5. A potion that is 3/5 is less pure than a 5/5 potion, which makes it less effective. This allows the ability to mix potions in different ways. For example-

A 3/5 Potion of Confusion combined with a 2/5 Potion of Magic Nets the player a Potion of Amnesia, but a 3/5 Potion of Magic mixed with a 2/5 Potion of Confusion nets the player a Potion of Transmutation.

A 2/5 Potion of Strength combined with a 2/5 Potion of Speed and a 1/5 Potion of Gain level gives the Player a Potion of Quick Strength Gain, but a 3/5 Potion of Speed mixed with a 1/5 Potion of Strength and a 1/5 Potion of Gain level nets the player a Potion of "Lose 1 Point Of Accuracy For Every Level of Strength" (because it's hard to control the super fast movements).

Anyway, you get the idea.

My final idea (before I check my other post) is this-

Gene Therapy- Have the ability to extract the genes from different monsters to create mutations (with risk, obviously). And yes- I know that mutations already exist. All I'm saing is that it might be more fun for the player if they had a choice to bend down over a corpse and extract the genetic material from it. The genetic material would be stored in a potion bottle and used as a bioweapon or as a way to enhance the player's character.

The sipping would be only remarkable in the early game and makes the IDgame a little bit dull since you are not taking risks in consuming potions. Eventually people would quaff entirely rather than sipping, IMHO

The gene extraction is some sort of fulsome distilation and it encourages scumming as gaining intrinsics does so it will be rejected probably

The mixture of potions, although interesting flavour and mechanics, not sure if it alters the plain current mechanic of potions.
Also you have to know somehow this kind of concepts beforehand: Crawl does not have classes to make an alchemist in that way, species does not help also. Maybe a manual of alchemy or something similar but... not sure really how this would work

Once a skill is introduces as a skill, everybody has that. That's why Artificers are so "weak", Evocations can't have "special abilities" to compensate because everyone can have 27 Evocations in theory. You could recycle the proposal for a God of Alchemy (deities cat give special abilities) but I think there will be a lot more work to be done.

palin wrote:Once a skill is introduces as a skill, everybody has that. That's why Artificers are so "weak", Evocations can't have "special abilities" to compensate because everyone can have 27 Evocations in theory. You could recycle the proposal for a God of Alchemy (deities cat give special abilities) but I think there will be a lot more work to be done.

The alchemy god sounds fun in the sense that you could interact with all the items in a different way than usually. There should be more discussion on this topic.

To me this alchemy proposal sounds like it would not fit into crawl at all. It requires players to memorize a huge list of recipes and potion effects, and I don't see the improvement to gameplay.

Fancy crafting systems are interesting (from a design perspective) in games played over a long time, especially if they involve a lot of grinding. This is why many MMO games have crafting. It can be fun in an MMO, with obscure or secret recipes that the community works together to find, and this crowdsourced player knowledge being passed on to newbies by guildmates. Also of course it allows breaking large rewards into smaller bits, and offering the player some way to choose what to make from these small bits, which is very nice for a grindy game.

For crawl I think it would do much more harm than good. Unlike MMOs roguelikes don't benefit from requiring lots of obscure knowledge (cf. nethack). The design goal is to offer interesting decisions, not to keep players engaged in a community for as long as possible.

The Diablo series has had some moderately complex crafting systems, and those games are arguably roguelikes. At very least, roguelike-like.

That said, I don't think Crawl would benefit from any more crafting than it has now, except possibly as a divine system.

njvack wrote:roguelike-like

this is worth repeating

HellRoach wrote:Sip- You should be able to take a sip of your potions, so that they last longer (or, if you are daring, are less likely to kill you). For example-

Taking a sip of a potion that would heal you for 20 health only heals you for 5 health.
Taking a sip of the equivalent poison potion (Don't ask!!!) makes you only lose 5 health.

Advanced Alchemy- Each potion has a Concentration rating from 1-5. A potion that is 3/5 is less pure than a 5/5 potion, which makes it less effective. This allows the ability to mix potions in different ways. For example-

A 3/5 Potion of Confusion combined with a 2/5 Potion of Magic Nets the player a Potion of Amnesia, but a 3/5 Potion of Magic mixed with a 2/5 Potion of Confusion nets the player a Potion of Transmutation.

A 2/5 Potion of Strength combined with a 2/5 Potion of Speed and a 1/5 Potion of Gain level gives the Player a Potion of Quick Strength Gain, but a 3/5 Potion of Speed mixed with a 1/5 Potion of Strength and a 1/5 Potion of Gain level nets the player a Potion of "Lose 1 Point Of Accuracy For Every Level of Strength" (because it's hard to control the super fast movements).

Anyway, you get the idea.

My final idea (before I check my other post) is this-

Gene Therapy- Have the ability to extract the genes from different monsters to create mutations (with risk, obviously). And yes- I know that mutations already exist. All I'm saing is that it might be more fun for the player if they had a choice to bend down over a corpse and extract the genetic material from it. The genetic material would be stored in a potion bottle and used as a bioweapon or as a way to enhance the player's character.

everything here is nonsense. It looks like someone who just learned fractions and has never read what a decent contribution thread actually looks like. "Anyway, you get the idea" is about as lazy as you can get when trying to describe your grand adventure in mathematics; perhaps you envision crawl as a gave where you can learn that 7/15 + 8/2 = well, who the fuck knows, you aren't actually using any interesting or complex math as far as I can see. You would probably die of shock if you saw combat and magic damage calculation formulas, but I doubt it would stop you from making an equally poor contribution in the future. Finally, more corpse manipulation does not belong in this game, and alchemy has been discussed to death - a state it should exist in now peacefully. In summary: you've written all nonsense, but thanks for your post! better luck with your next one!

Whoa, twelwe -- I didn't like the proposal much either, but there's no reason to yell at him. His math isn't a problem -- it's fine to have a proposal which lacks complicated math.

To make the potion of death, which creates a 5x5 expanding circle of long-duration miasma - we need 1/sqrt(6) potions of decay, and (..^-1)/10 potions of strong poison, which we then round with a potion of degeneration.

If you lack over 10^-3 of the required value, too bad.

Because you know, why work in fractions when you can work in nonsense.

Lack of complex math isn't the problem here, the problem is that this proposal would add absolutely nothing new except dumb potion names... seriously why would I quaff a potion of speedmightagility when I could quaff !speed -> !agility -> !might? Don't tell me anything about 14 ticks wasted because that is not worth any player's realtime creating potions, especially because the interface for this is bound to be clumsy. If anything this reduces risk (quaff-IDing with sip) without creating an additional choice (why quaff-ID without sip).
You list three proposals but never once explain why you think that they would make the game better. You only once say "it might be fun" without giving a reason. This is a question that you should ask yourself before proposing anything.

P.S. corpse manipulation sucks

Am I the only one who was this was a troll and enjoyed the humor at least a little?

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