Doubleskill weapons

[Strongpoint]

I proposed that long time ago, and decided to try again.
I think that it would be cool to have weapons that use two weapon skills, that will make aptitudes sightly more important and may bring interesting strategical decisions

Option one: doubleskill weapons works exactly like doubleskill spells - averages the level

It may be used only for few fixedarts with great base damage, mainly to test the concept

It may be limited to randarts (that allows strange combos like long sword\spear to come in game)

It may be used to nerf some weapons , if needed too

Option two: weapon still has main skill, but if secondary skill is trained it gives some nice bonus. Either direct like 1\x of secondary skills adds to the effective level or more creative ones: (secondary attacks, EV bonus, stabbing ability, whatever)

[palin]

I think sword-axes (heavy sword blades with a bigger tip than a standard sword) or Halberds (which is a spear/axe combo) should benefit of this (not in the sense that make these weapons better, but in the sense of variety).
These weapons could have a base accuracy/damage/whatever higher to compensate for the higher xp investment.

[Galefury]

I like that spell skills and weapon skills are fundamentally different. Not everything has to work the same way.

[palin]

I like that spell skills and weapon skills are fundamentally different. Not everything has to work the same way.

Yes, but this has more to do with flavour and balance. Try to image if the most powerful weapons in the game required two or three skills to be brought to min delay, casters and hybrids would have to invest more xp to use them effectively, while pure melee have xp in abundance and they could decide to invest them in two or three weapons skills instead of dabbling in spellcasting for utility spells.

This seems to me a nontrivial decision and something very akin to Crawl's philosophy.

[pubby]

It's a fair idea and I think it would be better than the current system.

Quick list of weapons that could work:

Bardiche - polearm/axes
Ankus - mace/short blades
Sabre - short blades/long blades
Glaive -short blade/polearms
Dire flail - mace/staff
Scythe - polearm/staff

[dpeg]

I've suggested something similar but slightly more elaborate, in order to differentiate high-tier weapons. All weapons would have a single skill, like now, but executioner's axe etc. would in addition check another skill for an extra effect. I believe that simply adding damage is not good enough -- you should see something out of the additional skill. Ideally, each weapon would have two additional skills to go with.

[Bloax]

It could probably work with the weapons rework, where the different weapon classes have something special ability of their own.

In which case such could have some others.

[Sar]

I've suggested something similar but slightly more elaborate, in order to differentiate high-tier weapons. All weapons would have a single skill, like now, but executioner's axe etc. would in addition check another skill for an extra effect. I believe that simply adding damage is not good enough -- you should see something out of the additional skill. Ideally, each weapon would have two additional skills to go with.

I wanted to mention that suggestion. IIRC you were talking (as an example) about bardiche getting cleaving (proposed Axes ability) as you progress your Axes skill.
I'm really looking forward to melee reform and I'd love to see this in.
Now that I think about it, what if weapons like that could benefit from one of two additional skills, whichever is higher - so bardiche + Axes means reaching cleave and bardiche + Long Blades means, uh, reaching + parry (if Long Blades get parry)? This way there would be a choice. The only negatives here is that you can screw yourself since you can't untrain skills and that it makes melee more complex, and some people would prefer melee to be simple. Oh, and that weapon skill names will lose its meaning as "Axes" would mean "Axes and other things that can cleave stuff" etc.

[sardonica]

I like that spell skills and weapon skills are fundamentally different. Not everything has to work the same way.

Yes, but this has more to do with flavour and balance. Try to image if the most powerful weapons in the game required two or three skills to be brought to min delay, casters and hybrids would have to invest more xp to use them effectively, while pure melee have xp in abundance and they could decide to invest them in two or three weapons skills instead of dabbling in spellcasting for utility spells.

This seems to me a nontrivial decision and something very akin to Crawl's philosophy.

Haha, crawl doesn't need a way to make melee characters even weaker thanks

[Sar]

I don't think that attack speed increase, however it works in the hypothetical new system, should be tied to both skills. Make additional skill influence only frequency with which the additional effect will trigger.

[palin]

Haha, crawl doesn't need a way to make melee characters even weaker thanks

Having unique weapons at their disposal, and maybe activating special effects (like cleaving of axes or keep ad distance for pointed polearms) could make them stronger, non weaker.

[Konebred]

Some sort of chain bladed weapon would be kind of cool. Axe skill for to hit and throwing skill for range increase. You might start with a 1 range with 1 throwing, and work up to a 4 range at 20 throwing or something, I dunno.

[rchandra]

A test case for this mechanic: throwing + weapon skill for throwing axes, clubs, etc. Make them actually do decent damage when one has both skills - perhaps accuracy via weapon skill and damage via Throwing?

[jejorda2]

Use reaching to hurl spears at that distant enemy while standing behind a rat.

Heave a hand axe and hit the enemies standing around your target.

Fling a club at Mennas and it curves around his shield to defy blocking.

Lob a scimitar in the same turn you walk away from Agnes.

No need to sneak up on sleeping dogs, just stab them at range with a precision dagger flip!

When you pelt a porcupine with a staff, uh, I got nothin'.

[varsovie]

I've suggested something similar but slightly more elaborate, in order to differentiate high-tier weapons. All weapons would have a single skill, like now, but executioner's axe etc. would in addition check another skill for an extra effect. I believe that simply adding damage is not good enough -- you should see something out of the additional skill. Ideally, each weapon would have two additional skills to go with.

If so, the secondary skill should be one of the existant (and why not least used) skill, not a new one.

Link weapons to Throwing, Sling, Shield, Armor, Dodging, Stealth, Stabbing, Traps...