Vestibule Violator
Posts: 1533
Joined: Thursday, 16th December 2010, 20:52
Wednesday, 9th February 2011, 21:16
Modest proposal for gladiators
In my latest version of my spreadsheet I've prepolutated the equipment slots using those for a Minotaur Gladiator and based on the comparison, and also the comparison to Fighters, I have a few alternative suggestions.
The issue is that gladiators are a bit more similar to fighters than they need to be, and I think thematically some tweaks would improve the "flavour" and also balance the weapon choices.
Gladiators, in my limited knowledge, were not very heavily armoured. People wanted to see the blood flow. With that in mind, I think they should either not have a shield, or have it downgraded to a buckler. This would actually boost their damage output a bit because of the lower EV penalty, and differentiate them from fighters more. It would also improve the balance between their starting weapon choices - with a buckler, the spear is more competitive with the other starting weapon choices.
However, as regards weapons - all gladiators, not just merfolk, should have the option of tridents, esp. if the shield remains standard equipment. The trident with a shield also matches the damage potential of the other starting weapon choices more closely. Spears and tridents are 1.5 handed and thus have a bigger penalty for being wielded with a shield.
I understand that tridents are a thematic match for merfolk, but they are just as thematic for gladiators. I also realize that tridents are a bit more effective than most starting weapon choices, but if they are available to merfolk with +4 aptitude for them, then surely they would not be too unbalanced for other species with worse polearms aptitudes.
The trident + net is a classic gladiator form, the Retiarus or "net man".:
In Crawl terms, I think a robe (tunic) + buckler (arm guard) would be the best match to this type, and again, this would differentiate a bit more from the fighter class. Gladiators don't have any armour skill to start anyway.
A full shield certainly does not fit the type, and it is in fact a penalty to their starting damage output. Ideally I think characters should not be handicapped by their starting equipment, as gladiators are with only 2 levels of shields.
So, to sum up, here is my proposal for Gladiators:
- Replace leather armour with a robe
- Replace shield with a buckler or remove it
- Make trident an option for all species of gladiators
This would create a clearer distinction between fighters (armoured, shielded tanks) and gladiators (nimble, evasive, "net man")
The issue is that gladiators are a bit more similar to fighters than they need to be, and I think thematically some tweaks would improve the "flavour" and also balance the weapon choices.
Gladiators, in my limited knowledge, were not very heavily armoured. People wanted to see the blood flow. With that in mind, I think they should either not have a shield, or have it downgraded to a buckler. This would actually boost their damage output a bit because of the lower EV penalty, and differentiate them from fighters more. It would also improve the balance between their starting weapon choices - with a buckler, the spear is more competitive with the other starting weapon choices.
However, as regards weapons - all gladiators, not just merfolk, should have the option of tridents, esp. if the shield remains standard equipment. The trident with a shield also matches the damage potential of the other starting weapon choices more closely. Spears and tridents are 1.5 handed and thus have a bigger penalty for being wielded with a shield.
I understand that tridents are a thematic match for merfolk, but they are just as thematic for gladiators. I also realize that tridents are a bit more effective than most starting weapon choices, but if they are available to merfolk with +4 aptitude for them, then surely they would not be too unbalanced for other species with worse polearms aptitudes.
The trident + net is a classic gladiator form, the Retiarus or "net man".:
A retiarius (plural retiarii; literally, "net-man" or "net-fighter" in Latin) was a Roman gladiator who fought with equipment styled on that of a fisherman: a weighted net (rete, hence the name), a three-pointed trident (fuscina or tridens), and a dagger (pugio). The retiarius was lightly armoured, wearing an arm guard (manica) and a shoulder guard (galerus). Typically, his clothing consisted only of a loincloth (subligaculum) held in place by a wide belt, or of a short tunic with light padding. He wore no head protection or footwear.
In Crawl terms, I think a robe (tunic) + buckler (arm guard) would be the best match to this type, and again, this would differentiate a bit more from the fighter class. Gladiators don't have any armour skill to start anyway.
A full shield certainly does not fit the type, and it is in fact a penalty to their starting damage output. Ideally I think characters should not be handicapped by their starting equipment, as gladiators are with only 2 levels of shields.
So, to sum up, here is my proposal for Gladiators:
- Replace leather armour with a robe
- Replace shield with a buckler or remove it
- Make trident an option for all species of gladiators
This would create a clearer distinction between fighters (armoured, shielded tanks) and gladiators (nimble, evasive, "net man")
