Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 3037
Joined: Sunday, 2nd January 2011, 02:06
Backgrounds
edit: This post was in the 0.12 feedback thread and a discussion about backgrounds followed, so I've split it into its own thread
galehar
Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 3037
Joined: Sunday, 2nd January 2011, 02:06
edit: This post was in the 0.12 feedback thread and a discussion about backgrounds followed, so I've split it into its own thread
galehar
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1888
Joined: Saturday, 9th July 2011, 20:57
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 3037
Joined: Sunday, 2nd January 2011, 02:06
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4055
Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1888
Joined: Saturday, 9th July 2011, 20:57
KoboldLord wrote:Also before we add another background, we need an actually good idea for a background. Lots of people have tried to come up with one, but we're pretty much stuck. The current backgrounds seem to cover all the design space there is to cover.
Dungeon Master
Posts: 3618
Joined: Thursday, 23rd December 2010, 12:43
Lair Larrikin
Posts: 29
Joined: Wednesday, 14th September 2011, 23:30
Crypt Cleanser
Posts: 689
Joined: Sunday, 3rd June 2012, 13:10
Starting with an ally -- for the Nethack afficionados, longing for a pet. The pet shouldn't be strong in either case, so it might even be permanent. On the other hand, if it is temporary, then it could be a bit stronger and gameplay might be more interesting (rush rather than explore carefully to make most out of your pet).
Swamp Slogger
Posts: 159
Joined: Friday, 25th March 2011, 04:05
dpeg wrote:I am not convinced that there cannot be interesting new backgrounds. It may help to recall what has happened to backgrounds: many were cut (Thief, Chaos Knight of Makhleb, Paladin, Reaver, Stalker), other were changed quite a bit (Monk, caster backgrounds via book changes, religious backgrounds via god changes) and still others have been added at some point (Artificer, Skald, Arcane Marksman).
Recall that a background is intended to get you to a stage where you can make decisions. Sure, some backgrounds seem to be weaker than that, and other backgrounds can carry you into the midgame on their own (Berserker, Healer, some casters), but that's the general plan.
An idea that have not been discussed yet, as far as I am aware (and no guarantee it's half-decent):
Starting with an ally -- for the Nethack afficionados, longing for a pet. The pet shouldn't be strong in either case, so it might even be permanent. On the other hand, if it is temporary, then it could be a bit stronger and gameplay might be more interesting (rush rather than explore carefully to make most out of your pet).
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 5382
Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36
crate wrote:There's not space for another background, there are 27 of them in 0.12
:p
Slime Squisher
Posts: 400
Joined: Saturday, 24th September 2011, 03:45
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 3163
Joined: Friday, 6th January 2012, 18:45
tasonir wrote:crate wrote:There's not space for another background, there are 27 of them in 0.12
:p
What was added? or did we go from 28 to 27, but you consider 27 still enough/too many?
Crypt Cleanser
Posts: 689
Joined: Sunday, 3rd June 2012, 13:10
You really can't fix a level 2 spell that provides functionally infinite confusion and poison clouds, plus large quantities of miasma.
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 3037
Joined: Sunday, 2nd January 2011, 02:06
dpeg wrote:An idea that have not been discussed yet, as far as I am aware (and no guarantee it's half-decent):
Starting with an ally -- for the Nethack afficionados, longing for a pet. The pet shouldn't be strong in either case, so it might even be permanent. On the other hand, if it is temporary, then it could be a bit stronger and gameplay might be more interesting (rush rather than explore carefully to make most out of your pet).
eeviac wrote:Side note: artificers should start with a rod of striking instead of a staff. Some dev please make this happen.
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1888
Joined: Saturday, 9th July 2011, 20:57
pubby wrote:Anyway, there's no ranged/charms or ranged/tloc background.
Crypt Cleanser
Posts: 689
Joined: Sunday, 3rd June 2012, 13:10
Would these differ strongly from Skalds and Warpers who pick up the first launcher they find, though?
Side note: artificers should start with a rod of striking instead of a staff. Some dev please make this happen.
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1888
Joined: Saturday, 9th July 2011, 20:57
pubby wrote:Launcher/ammo drops are not guaranteed. Also, half of the spells in the skald book don't apply to ranged.
Is beast master much different from summoners with small mammals and canines?
Snake Sneak
Posts: 103
Joined: Thursday, 21st July 2011, 15:27
cjo wrote:Proposed spell: Diffusion
This spell takes a portion of solid material on the ground and converts it to a diffuse form in the air. The effect is variable depending upon the material targeted. (Not a great description, but I can try to improve it later...)
Targets the ground, requires LOS
Effect is a 3x3 square
If the ground is stone or rock, you get the message "The air is filled with choking dust." It has a slowing effect on all mosters that need to breathe.
If you target a plant, you get the message "The air is filled with splinters of {plant}" and the result does damage in a 3x3 square.
If you target water, you get a steam cloud.
If you target grass, you get mud.
If you target ice, you get a freezing cloud (sounds great, but how often do you find ice outside an ice cave, where everything is cold resistant?)
If you target lava, you get clouds of flame.
This would add back the sense of shaping something besides yourself.
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1888
Joined: Saturday, 9th July 2011, 20:57
Guppyfry wrote:Lead to Gold - Converts weapons and armor to cash. Ok, this is really a joke, since it would probably cripple them in the beginning when a background is still meaningful, but they're alchemists!
Snake Sneak
Posts: 103
Joined: Thursday, 21st July 2011, 15:27
Crypt Cleanser
Posts: 645
Joined: Wednesday, 14th September 2011, 09:36
Location: <---
dpeg wrote:An idea that have not been discussed yet, as far as I am aware (and no guarantee it's half-decent):
Starting with an ally -- for the Nethack afficionados, longing for a pet. The pet shouldn't be strong in either case, so it might even be permanent. On the other hand, if it is temporary, then it could be a bit stronger and gameplay might be more interesting (rush rather than explore carefully to make most out of your pet).
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1888
Joined: Saturday, 9th July 2011, 20:57
varsovie wrote:But a permanent ally, even weak is still a flatout advantage through the game
Slime Squisher
Posts: 369
Joined: Saturday, 3rd September 2011, 18:22
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 3037
Joined: Sunday, 2nd January 2011, 02:06
pubby wrote:Is beast master much different from summoners with small mammals and canines?
Tomb Titivator
Posts: 850
Joined: Wednesday, 25th April 2012, 03:07
Blades Runner
Posts: 536
Joined: Wednesday, 10th August 2011, 01:06
Dungeon Dilettante
Posts: 4
Joined: Saturday, 18th August 2012, 09:23
Dungeon Master
Posts: 4031
Joined: Thursday, 16th December 2010, 20:37
Location: France
nicolae wrote:varsovie wrote:But a permanent ally, even weak is still a flatout advantage through the game
Well... until it dies.
Kheldar wrote:The Stalker starting book (book of Stalking) has been removed from the game too? I mean it would not deserve anything if you cut this background and any other adventurer could stumble onto Book of Stalking on the floor isn't it?
Snake Sneak
Posts: 96
Joined: Thursday, 17th May 2012, 09:09
galehar wrote:Yes, a permanent ally isn't really permanent. But backgrounds shouldn't come with something unique. You can always "change your background" if you find the right items and train the right skills (although stat differences are harder to change). But gaining a permanent ally is really rare.
Blades Runner
Posts: 536
Joined: Wednesday, 10th August 2011, 01:06
Snake Sneak
Posts: 96
Joined: Thursday, 17th May 2012, 09:09
Deimos wrote:Well, all characters eventually lead their defining feature, some earlier then others. For example, the defining feature of a Assassin is just some starting needles. I see no fault in having a short term defining features.
Snake Sneak
Posts: 103
Joined: Thursday, 21st July 2011, 15:27
Crypt Cleanser
Posts: 718
Joined: Monday, 14th February 2011, 05:35
pubby wrote:Launcher/ammo drops are not guaranteed.
Crypt Cleanser
Posts: 720
Joined: Friday, 7th January 2011, 01:43
duvessa wrote:Christ, you can't remove anything without tavern complaining about it.
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 3037
Joined: Sunday, 2nd January 2011, 02:06
Return to Game Design Discussion
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 84 guests