Fixing bad fixedarts

[eeviac]

I see fixedarts as an opportunity to add unique mechanics to crawl. I also believe they should be generally useful and interesting. I've learned a bit about creating crawl fixedarts and could submit a patch fixing them up, with dev/community feedback. For reference, here's a list of all unrands.


the straight-up bad:
Lear's chain mail
robe of Folly
robe of Misfortune

There are enough terrible randarts in the game that I don't believe we need terrible fixedarts. They should be removed outright.


Singing Sword - buff its base type to scimitar, or perhaps eudemon. It is described as a 'blessed weapon'.
Lehudib's crystal spear - For flavor, probably needs to stay as a spear. Maybe give it an earth themed brand? Petrify?
crown of Dyrovepreva - Remove the Hunger brand. It only serves to annoy and encourage micromanagement.
ratskin cloak - remove stat penalties, add rRot. flavor: rats thrive in filth and decay.
cloak of the Thief - remove damage penalty, add ??
sword of the Doom Knight - remove -CAST, or keep -CAST and gain autocursing
knife of Accuracy - make it brand-able, or generate with a random brand chosen from pain/elec/venom/disto/chaos
plutonium sword - fix it

There are a lot of crappy fixedarts but I will only list the ones I have changes for.
Blowgun of the Assassin - Okay, a +6 blowgun is better than a +0 blowgun, but it has +Inv on it and a blowgun is the worst possible item in the game to have +Inv on, so that's pretty weird.
Sniper - You can get a better crossbow with one scroll of vorpalise weapon. Could stay +0 to damage if it had velocity and a much higher to-hit enchantment. (or penetration brand?)
Snakebite - Give it constriction. 100% serious.
Bullseye - Remove it and do this instead: the +27 shield of the gong {Spirit, rElec rN+ MR EV-5}

[mageykun]

They are a waste of an item gen roll. They should be removed outright.

I disagree. There's merit in getting players, especially players who haven't see those yet, excited about finding a rare artefact only to then realize they're terrible, even without tricking them into putting them on. It's a little bit of reward dissonance, and it adds to the emotional experience of the game. It's the sour note of the complete experience that is being at the mercy of the rng. Removing the note reduces the impact of the counterpoint, and results in a poorer experience.

[nicolae]

Now that fixedarts are universally identified, there is no way for players to get tricked into using or wearing these. The spoilery joke is ruined. They are a waste of an item gen roll. They should be removed outright.

Actually I think the robe of Misfortune, and possibly Folly too, is special-cased to have a random randart appearance.

[Sporkman]

I just want to state here that my feeling is that, if not useful, unrandarts should be interesting. Now, with that out of the way...

the straight-up bad:
knife of Accuracy

I agree with this; it has no brand, and aside from its stupidly-high accuracy it's basically floor trash. It's VERY underwhelming to find, and it's not even a trap; it's just disappointing. Maybe a returning brand could give it some use?

Lear's chain mail
robe of Folly
robe of Misfortune

Traps, and (as stated) are special-cased to appear as randarts.

Others that I think need help:
Singing Sword - buff its base type to scimitar, or perhaps eudemon. It is described as a 'blessed weapon'.

Okay, agree'd in that it needs a buff, but I'd say either increasing its enchantment or giving it a brand might make it usable. It REALLY needs something unique tied into its nature; simply turning into 'the Screaming Sword' at high tension doesn't make it particularly useful, but it sounds like it should be powerful.

Lehudib's crystal spear - For flavor, probably needs to stay as a spear. Maybe give it an earth themed brand? Petrify?

Maybe. I think it's fairly balanced myself, being an artifact thrown weapon with returning, but perhaps it could stand a slight tweak to make it more interesting.

crown of Dyrovepreva - Remove the Hunger brand. It only serves to annoy and encourage micromanagement.

I can agree with that.

ratskin cloak - remove stat penalties, add rRot. flavor: rats thrive in filth and decay.

Maybe. Not every unrand has to be super-powerful, but maybe the rRot could make it a bit more unique.

cloak of the Thief - remove damage penalty, add rSlow. flavor: sneaky speedy thief. (readding rSlow may be more work than it's worth,)

Yeah, the DAM penalty seems a bit odd favor-wise. rSlow may not really be useful enough.

amulet of Cekugob - not sure what to do here, it gives drawbacks without providing any real benefit.

Wasn't Cekugob an amulet of stasis? Perhaps changing it back would be useful. I agree, though, it seems like it doesn't provide much in the way of use and feels like it's just a bum artifact.

[Sporkman]

Cekugob predates stasis. And would be worse if it were stasis, honestly - at least right now it might be my rElec swap, but who wants to fight Nikola unhasted?

True, but right now it feels like an inferior Broach of Shielding with a few extra resists.

I feel stupid for asking, but does -Tele prevent hostile teleports as well?

[Tiber]

I feel stupid for asking, but does -Tele prevent hostile teleports as well?

Yes. Only gods and banishment can get through it.

[Sporkman]

*Facepalm* And here I thought it only prevented your own. Still, its +1 EV and +1 AC feel almost like an afterthought, and its increased hunger rate feels a little micro-manage-y.

[eeviac]

They are a waste of an item gen roll. They should be removed outright.

I disagree. There's merit in getting players, especially players who haven't see those yet, excited about finding a rare artefact only to then realize they're terrible, even without tricking them into putting them on. It's a little bit of reward dissonance, and it adds to the emotional experience of the game. It's the sour note of the complete experience that is being at the mercy of the rng. Removing the note reduces the impact of the counterpoint, and results in a poorer experience.

I believe that terrible randarts are common enough that crawl doesn't need guaranteed terribleness.

Now that fixedarts are universally identified, there is no way for players to get tricked into using or wearing these. The spoilery joke is ruined. They are a waste of an item gen roll. They should be removed outright.

Actually I think the robe of Misfortune, and possibly Folly too, is special-cased to have a random randart appearance.

huh. That would explain why I'm certain I've never seen Lear in an actual game - out of principal I never ever check randart chain mails. Or splint/ring/scale mails, for that matter.

[mikee]

knife of Accuracy

This is actually not as bad as you think.

Singing Sword

I think the screaming buff was a good improvement to the power and fun of this item. If the tension meter is improved, this will also improve indirectly. I think it's fine.

Lehudib's crystal spear

I am fine with this as a 'joke' item that does something but not a lot.

crown of Dyrovepreva - Remove the Hunger brand. It only serves to annoy and encourage micromanagement.

Yes.

ratskin cloak

I don't see what's wrong with this.

cloak of the Thief - remove damage penalty, add rSlow. flavor: sneaky speedy thief. (readding rSlow may be more work than it's worth,)

Readding rslow may also be insane. =P

amulet of Cekugob

I was really surprised to see this in your list. From a design standpoint, this seems like a good item - an item with strong bonuses and drawbacks that also has some niche uses.

I might have some suggestions of my own later, but I can't think of any right now. I think marvinpa and others have done a good job of improving unrands over time.

[mikee]

Yeah, the DAM penalty seems a bit odd favor-wise. rSlow may not really be useful enough.

rslow was removed because it was grossly overpowered. This is probably hard to see from a theoretical standpoint, though.

[pubby]

Lear's chainmail should be -3 { -CAST, +2 EV, rF }" going by the properties of gold.

Crossbow 'sniper' should have special penetration ego instead of poison.

Finisher scythe should have +Inv, be evokable for throw flame, and have a chance to confuse enemies upon hitting them.

Crown of Dyrovepreva should be renamed to Crown of Depo-Provera.

[eeviac]

I spent a minute trying to figure out what would be so strong about rSlow, and then I made the berserk connection. I didn't play crawl much when it was around, heh. I'd figured it would be nice to have in Tomb. As well as rRot.

My problem with ratskin is that it's an underenchanted cloak that penalizes your stats in exchange for two mediocre resists. I know the penalty is negligible but, why is it even there? Same logic applies to Cekugob - it's 'good' is not good enough to be worth the bad. Heck, you could take off the -tele and hunger and I'd still only use it as a swap.

[nicolae]

Crown of Dyrovepreva should be renamed to Crown of Depo-Provera.

It's good to know that I'm not the only one who makes that mental connection every time I read the artifact name.

[crate]

Cekugob is always worth carrying around if you find it imo, it is really quite good. I use it often when I do find it.

[Mankeli]

Upgrade Maxwell's trap armour's base type to crystal plate. I would really like to have a char to wear this even once. Not that I probably would with even this change. Remove Sword of the Doom Knight. It's just a confusing concept altogether. Pain on a two-handed weapon with -cast?

[jejorda2]

Finisher scythe should have +Inv, be evokable for throw flame, and have a chance to confuse enemies upon hitting them.

What about *Inv, such that you turn invisible upon being hit?

[onton]

Finisher scythe should have +Inv, be evokable for throw flame, and have a chance to confuse enemies upon hitting them.

What about *Inv, such that you turn invisible upon being hit?

It would just accumulate glow and cause mutations.

[Jabberwocky]

If this invisibility causes glow that would make it pretty useless.

[mikee]

Upgrade Maxwell's trap armour's base type to crystal plate. I would really like to have a char to wear this even once. Not that I probably would with even this change. Remove Sword of the Doom Knight. It's just a confusing concept altogether. Pain on a two-handed weapon with -cast?

These are both very good items already!!

I could see losing -CAST on doom knight since in theory it's cool that it has that but in practice it leads to swapping a lot. Alternatively, it could keep -CAST and gain autocursing.

If anything needs adjusting/removing it is probably plutonium sword, but this might be a problem with contam+ itself. Maybe also the ranged weapons minmay mentioned above, although I have very little experience with them.

[Mankeli]

Upgrade Maxwell's trap armour's base type to crystal plate. I would really like to have a char to wear this even once. Not that I probably would with even this change. Remove Sword of the Doom Knight. It's just a confusing concept altogether. Pain on a two-handed weapon with -cast?

These are both very good items already!!

I could see losing -CAST on doom knight since in theory it's cool that it has that but in practice it leads to swapping a lot. Alternatively, it could keep -CAST and gain autocursing.

If anything needs adjusting/removing it is probably plutonium sword, but this might be a problem with contam+ itself. Maybe also the ranged weapons minmay mentioned above, although I have very little experience with them.

I wasn't claiming that DK-sword is unusable. I just don't think it is very fun doing the whole swichzaroo thing (as you point out as well, sort of). So, at least in it's current form, I don't like it.

But Maxwell's being a very good item? You have to walk me trough the steps here . I was thinking that it might be good for a Lugonu follower or some other deity that offers emergency buttons but not otherwise. (I decided not to include these ponderings before because I haven't actually tried it with a lugonite).

I agree with the sniper buff and please don't remove robe of misfortune or folly. I'm not sure about the Bullseye idea although something needs to be done with it for sure. Maybe make it have a low chance of mesmerizing the monster for 1 or 2 turns but make it so that the monster cannot use it's ranged attack during this, only move forward. "The foo gazes into your shields strange patterns and is hypnotized" or something like that. Would be useful against yaktaurs, centaurs, liches and the sort.

Edit. And you could make it so that the range was limited (like 4 tiles) so fast PCs could not potentially abuse it in the edge of LOS.

[mikee]

OK, let's look briefly at maxwell's from a player perspective:

The good things about it are obviously very good. You get amazing AC, magic resistance, and preservation, all on a body slot. Wow. That's 3 of the 4 most valuable item properties in one item (the other is on boots of running).

The bad things about it are of course bad, but are they more bad than the good things are good? You can't cast spells and you can't teleport/be teleported or blink/get blinked. Obviously, if you are casting spells you are not planning on using this armour very much, so that is a moot point. So how bad is -TELE? In general it is bad - no more scrolls of blinking, teleporting, etc. Specifically, how bad this is depends on how you play. If you are charging around until you are in an emergency and then teleporting to try to reset the situation, then -TELE will kill you. If you make a habit of planning ahead and recognizing when an emergency may occur, then you can simply avoid the emergency... or, as is often the case, you can escape without teleporting (potions of speed exist). This is not merely a theoretical discussion; I use maxwell's almost every time I find it, and I always feel that my character is stronger for it (and I have never died while wearing it).

From a design perspective, I think maxwell's is one of the best fixedarts in the game. Using it gives a strong benefit but forces you to adapt and makes your decisions seem like they matter more. And it does this without being tedious or annoying.

[eeviac]

OK, removed Cekugob and rSlow from the OP, and added Doom Knight and minmay's suggestions. I'm not quite convinced that singing sword and lcs don't need help, and that knife of accuracy isn't completely terrible.

I like Maxwell's.

[Sar]

knife of Accuracy

This is actually not as bad as you think.

Okay, I give up. In which situation would you find that extremely accurate, but very low on damage (and unable to receive even temporary brand) weapon useful? Apart from having crazy amounts of slaying, perhaps (octopode)?

[mikee]

OK, here is one quick example: slimify.

[njvack]

The Knife of Accuracy might be more interesting, though, if you could hit it with Warp Weapon or Excruciating Wounds. I know artefacts can't be enchanted, but fixedarts get to get to break all kinds of rules

[eeviac]

(to be honest I'm not certain if mikee is being entirely serious here )

I'd rather have knife of Accuracy generate with a random brand, chosen from pain/elec/venom/distortion/chaos. Similar to how faerie dragon armour works. I removed it from the removal section, and added these suggestions.

[XuaXua]

OK, here is one quick example: slimify.

Or any touch-based spell (Confusing Touch).

Blowgun of the Assassin - Okay, a +6 blowgun is better than a +0 blowgun, but it has +Inv on it and a blowgun is the worst possible item in the game to have +Inv on, so that's pretty weird.

Wouldn't attacking while visible, then using +Inv to escape, be the reason?

[Jabberwocky]

Last I checked confusing touch only works unarmed...

[Mankeli]

OK, let's look briefly at maxwell's from a player perspective:
This is not merely a theoretical discussion; I use maxwell's almost every time I find it, and I always feel that my character is stronger for it (and I have never died while wearing it).

Interesting. Maybe I really try it out properly next time I have the chance.

[mikee]

(to be honest I'm not certain if mikee is being entirely serious here )

I'd rather have knife of Accuracy generate with a random brand, chosen from pain/elec/venom/distortion/chaos. Similar to how faerie dragon armour works. I removed it from the removal section, and added these suggestions.

Hey, I was serious that time. Not everything is a hoax. =P

My suggestions for knife of accuracy:
1) increase damage enchantment slightly; special-case (sorry, I am bad) to never miss.
2) increase damage enchantment slightly; change base type to quick blade; maybe vorpalize it?
3) keep as-is; wielding increases the accuracy of everything - throwing, spells, wands - this suggestion is a little crazy maybe.

[dassem]

Some nice ideas in this thread!
My thought is that you want to give the player some tough choices. So, for fixed arts with a big drawback, you want players to really have to think: Can I live with this? I like games where I get an early item so awesome that I just have to throw out my whole plan and play in a different way.
When I see –Cast, Stasis, or +Glow, then the item pretty much goes into the trash. My solution would be to buff some of the items with those properties, such that you realize it will probably get you killed but you try to work out some way to change your game to be able to use them.

[Bloax]

I doubt you'd throw this one in the trash, however:

  Code:

E - the ring "Alive" {MUT +Rage rElec rPois EV+5 Int+3 SInv}.

Which is basically how this whole "good for bad" stuff should be.

[ontoclasm]

I suggest the Knife of Accuracy be flipped to being the Knife of Inaccuracy: something like a -27,+15 dagger {Stealth++, Curse} or something. Then it would be useful as a stabbing weapon (since the accuracy is irrelevant), but (even more) terrible for normal combat. And the recursing makes it so you can't just switch to it for stabbing at will.

[onton]

I suggest the Knife of Accuracy be flipped to being the Knife of Inaccuracy: something like a -27,+15 dagger {Stealth++, Curse} or something. Then it would be useful as a stabbing weapon (since the accuracy is irrelevant), but (even more) terrible for normal combat. And the recursing makes it so you can't just switch to it for stabbing at will.

So that it's finally guaranteed to be useless?

[jejorda2]

If you're an ice elementalist who does most damage with conjurations but hibernates some enemies at melee range to stab them, you might wield it until you find a staff of cold and a dagger of flaming.

[eeviac]

Checking recent commits, I see that sword of power and krishna were buffed. Removed sword of power from the OP.

(to be honest I'm not certain if mikee is being entirely serious here )

I'd rather have knife of Accuracy generate with a random brand, chosen from pain/elec/venom/distortion/chaos. Similar to how faerie dragon armour works. I removed it from the removal section, and added these suggestions.

Hey, I was serious that time. Not everything is a hoax. =P

My suggestions for knife of accuracy:
1) increase damage enchantment slightly; special-case (sorry, I am bad) to never miss.
2) increase damage enchantment slightly; change base type to quick blade; maybe vorpalize it?
3) keep as-is; wielding increases the accuracy of everything - throwing, spells, wands - this suggestion is a little crazy maybe.

I like #3, except that it wouldn't work with rods, and might be hard to explain in-game.

[JeffQyzt]

The only (very minor) downside to the Krishna buff (which was changing its base type to longbow) is that it is now no longer useable by small races. I would have preferred that it remain a bow base type, with +base damage mods (similar to a number of other fixedarts, such as the autumn katana.)

[JeffQyzt]

A small species has no business using bows. They are so bad that even a +8 bow of speed isn't very good.

Yes, picking bows on the extremely rare chance that you might find a given fixedart would be a bad idea. However, if you happened to come across it early on, things might be different. In the grand scheme, not a big deal.

[yogaFLAME]

They are a waste of an item gen roll. They should be removed outright.

I disagree. There's merit in getting players, especially players who haven't see those yet, excited about finding a rare artefact only to then realize they're terrible, even without tricking them into putting them on. It's a little bit of reward dissonance, and it adds to the emotional experience of the game. It's the sour note of the complete experience that is being at the mercy of the rng. Removing the note reduces the impact of the counterpoint, and results in a poorer experience.

There is something to be said for the emotional rollercoaster that one can provide.

  Code:

 As you read the scroll labeled VEOSYGGUABE, it crumbles to dust.
This is a scroll of acquirement!
[a] Weapon [b] Armour [c] Jewellery [d] Book [e] Staff
[f] Wand [g] Miscellaneous [h] Food [i] Gold [j] Ammunition
Something appears at your feet!
_Your possessions no longer seem quite so burdensome.
You are being weighed down by all of your possessions.
_F - a faintly glowing robe
You start removing your armour.
_You continue taking off your +1 cloak of magic resistance.
You finish taking off your +1 cloak of magic resistance.
You feel less resistant to hostile enchantments.
You start removing your armour.
_You continue taking off your +2 robe of positive energy. x2
You finish taking off your +2 robe of positive energy.
You feel vulnerable.
You start putting on your armour.
_You continue putting on your faintly glowing robe. x2
You finish putting on the -1 robe of Folly {-Cast Int-5 Curse}.
You feel stupid.