Iron vulnerability: a mutation and/or a gimmick for elves

[Roderic]

Fear of iron:

1) you cannot wear or wield anything that contains a meaningful amount of wrought iron

2) when hurt by iron weaponry the damage is split half between HP and between MP; MP points lost that way takes longer to recover.

I've come up with this idea while thinking about a species that somebody suggested about being only able to handle primitive weapons (slings, clubs ... ). As a first idea I thought about a kind of wild spirit like satyrs or wildmen or woses, that could be included as a new species or replace either halflings or sludge elves...

But then I realized that this can be used as a gimmick for the elvenkind because traditionally they are affected by iron. My idea is that at least one elven species have fear of iron as an innate mutation. In this case elven items are made of an alloy that does not contain iron (bronze, copper, mithril, orichalcum, whatever else) so their magic is not affected. This yields to a more concrete idea to point 1:

1) you cannot wear or wield anything made of iron: (mundane, orcish, dwarven) maces, blades, polearms, armour, helmets, shields and gauntlets.

* Artifacts and demonic weapons/gear probably can be worn so as not to limit them too much


How this would apply to the elves ? My options are:

a) High elves. They are plain boring now and somewhat questioned as a species for that. This gimmick makes them more interesting because of some limitation in the things they can use; usually elven gear can be found without many effort in the dungeon, but this may encourage to visit the Elven Halls for better equipment. In addition, the restriction of finding a suitable AC is compensated by the split of the damage between MP and HP, which sometimes can be good to save your life and sometimes can be bad if you plan to cast some spell.
HE are users of SB, LB or polearms rather than of maces or axes; the first three have elven manufacturing, the other two not (at least as I remember they are not so common), so they are not affected really much.

*The idea of split the damage came from the Protoss in Starcraft, by the way. In the game, we can think of iron as interfering and damaging both body and magic energies.

b) Sludge elves: My second option to gimmick. Seeing how they are designed, it comes naturally for them to not to rely on iron items. They are better with projectiles, staffs, light armour and unarmed. The damage split may help them during melee combats at the price of limiting their spellcasting in some situations.

c) Deep elves: I think they are good designed as they are, so I would not touch them. The idea here is to let them use iron items (if they wish) because they have been attuned to the iron energies by their subterranean habitat so iron has lost its damaging effect on them. This way the deep elves foes remain as they are.


Alternative:
The concept can be added as a acquired mutation instead of an innate for species.

[Galefury]

For this to be used as a random mutation it would have to be level 3, with level 2 and level 1 being significantly less harsh. The immediate loss of your weapon and body armor is simply way too much for a level 1 mutation.

For a race I'm not sure if this idea is good. The rule for what can and cant be worn is a bit complicated. What about polearms for example? Requiring people to learn some new stuff when playing a race (such as monster sizes for nagas and octopodes) is okay IMO. But I'm unsure whether the effects on gameplay would be interesting. Strongly restricted weapon choice is probably not that interesting if the restriction allows using polearms and staves. For armor it is very similar to the current large species restriction, but would allow using leather armor, elven armor and artifacts.

The guardian spirit effect against some enemies could be cool, but requires the player to learn yet more things, and what weapon a monster is wielding would become even more relevant (without currently being displayed without x in console).

[JeffQyzt]

Interesting idea, and it would definitely differentiate elves better to have a feature/gimmick like this. I wouldn't call it "fear" though, maybe an "allergy" or "vulnerability" to iron.

Points for consideration:

• This would be a distinction between gloves/gauntlets. Hooray!
• Elves already strongly favor dodging over armour. This would emphasize that trend by effectively removing most of the non-robes/leather/dragon armour as options. This would make their armour decision much like that for Ogres/Trolls.
• Axes, polearms, and many maces/flails have handles that are not made of metal. Shields are frequently made primarily of wood and leather.
• For most primarily melee builds, and especially berserkers, the "guardian spirit" effect you propose for damage from "iron" weapons would be purely beneficial. For casters, it would be as bad as guardian spirit is for them now. What would be the effect of wearing a guardian spirit amulet in addition to the mutation?
• For an acquired mutation, I think it should be purely detrimental. However, what would be the effect if you were e.g. wearing iron armour/weapons when you mutated? Would it fall off? Would you take damage over time like poison?
• If Deep Elves aren't affected, why do they make "elven" gear?

As an alternative to just restricting use altogether, an "iron allergy" could manifest in other ways

• Damage over time when using - boring, but easily understandable
• Could slow/eliminate regeneration of hp and/or mp
• Could add a multiplier to any inherent penalties (similar to the increased penalties Spriggans get for being tiny). It would be hard to show this, though.
• Could periodically inflict sickness status while using (tangent - this could be an interesting side effect for artefacts...)

[Roderic]

For this to be used as a random mutation it would have to be level 3, with level 2 and level 1 being significantly less harsh. The immediate loss of your weapon and body armor is simply way too much for a level 1 mutation.

There is room to other effects depending on the level, of course

For a race I'm not sure if this idea is good. The rule for what can and cant be worn is a bit complicated. What about polearms for example? Requiring people to learn some new stuff when playing a race (such as monster sizes for nagas and octopodes) is okay IMO. But I'm unsure whether the effects on gameplay would be interesting. Strongly restricted weapon choice is probably not that interesting if the restriction allows using polearms and staves. For armor it is very similar to the current large species restriction, but would allow using leather armor, elven armor and artifacts.
Polearms have blades of iron but there are elven spears which can be worn. Staves are not made of iron or are not necessarily made of. Iron rings are "magical" but above all has not so many iron.


The guardian spirit effect against some enemies could be cool, but requires the player to learn yet more things, and what weapon a monster is wielding would become even more relevant (without currently being displayed without x in console).
It is not a completely guardian spirit effect because MP would not be recovered so fast; this would make magic potions more valuable for elves.
I agree with the second point, but there is some thoughts about displaying the weapons in a list or maybe increasing the threat colour of the monster in the list, or other alternatives.

Interesting idea, and it would definitely differentiate elves better to have a feature/gimmick like this. I wouldn't call it "fear" though, maybe an "allergy" or "vulnerability" to iron.
I agree

Points for consideration:

• Elves already strongly favor dodging over armour. This would emphasize that trend by effectively removing most of the non-robes/leather/dragon armour as options. This would make their armour decision much like that for Ogres/Trolls.
  Wearable: robes, hides, dragon armour, crystal armour, leather armour, and elven armour. The rest contain too much iron to wear
• Axes, polearms, and many maces/flails have handles that are not made of metal. Shields are frequently made primarily of wood and leather.
  As I said in OP, items that are significantly made of iron, not necessarily in contact to the wielder. Shields are undetermined currently in their composition so I took the worst case; maybe would be interesting to diversify them, also remember that there are elven shields as well.
• For most primarily melee builds, and especially berserkers, the "guardian spirit" effect you propose for damage from "iron" weapons would be purely beneficial. For casters, it would be as bad as guardian spirit is for them now. What would be the effect of wearing a guardian spirit amulet in addition to the mutation?
  My first idea was to keep the full HP damage and in addition lose MP points, then I nerfed the effect to be substantially beneficial to compensate the lack of high AC armour available until they find some elven mail. The proportion of damage can be reworked. Also keep in mind that many elves characters cast sooner or later as it is one of their strong points so a harmed elf cannot may lose the chance to cast a critical spell, so it is not so beneficial. For melee builds I agree that is helpful but they have to invest in EV because the lack of good AC in early game.
  Remind that MP lost by damage recovers slower than those by casting, so it is not as fast as guardian spirit protection.
• For an acquired mutation, I think it should be purely detrimental. However, what would be the effect if you were e.g. wearing iron armour/weapons when you mutated? Would it fall off? Would you take damage over time like poison?
  Not sure, probably you take it off automatically because it burns or it itches like hell. Yes, it is detrimental but you still have the HP/MP damage split, which can be either a bless or a curse depending on the situation and your background.
• If Deep Elves aren't affected, why do they make "elven" gear?
  They are elves! They are traditionally forging bronze, copper or mithril to make weapons or armour but they do not how to cast iron. They do not need it either for elven items are better for spellcasting.
  Historical note: Egyptians, Mayas, Incas, Aztecs didn't forged iron either but they were more than competent civilizations

As an alternative to just restricting use altogether, an "iron allergy" could manifest in other ways

• Damage over time when using - boring, but easily understandable
• Could slow/eliminate regeneration of hp and/or mp
• Could add a multiplier to any inherent penalties (similar to the increased penalties Spriggans get for being tiny). It would be hard to show this, though.
• Could periodically inflict sickness status while using (tangent - this could be an interesting side effect for artefacts...)

Thanks for feedback! Perhaps this mutation can have 1,2,3 levels of affection and elves or whichever species may have one of the levels, either 1, 2 or 3

[XuaXua]

Iron Allergic 1, 2, 3

Excellent name.

[Konebred]

I was gonna make fun of your suggestion, but I would hate to be labeled as a ferrum troll.

[palin]

If we're going to cast votes, I candidate "Siderophobia". Maybe the meaning it's not immediately obvius to non scientific types, but it sounds good to me and it's not a made up word
The problem is that it is ambiguous since it both means "fear of iron" and "fear of the stars" due to the fact that the root it's the same. Since there are not stars in crawl, the ambiguity is not critical.

[scorpionwarrior]

I'm all for differentiating the elves but seems like you're really "grasping at straws" here. I love high elves but I would rather they be removed than have to worry about this crap.

[Roderic]

I'm all for differentiating the elves but seems like you're really "grasping at straws" here. I love high elves but I would rather they be removed than have to worry about this crap.

Which "flavour of crap" do you dislike ? The restriction of items or the split of damage between HP and MP ?