Swamp Slogger
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Demonspawn seem so incredibly weak
Maybe they would have a better chance if they had +1 to Polearms and Maces?
Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.
Swamp Slogger
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It seems to me that if you pick a race that forces you to deal with negative skill modifiers it's pure luck if you survive long enough to see the temple, let alone the Lair.
Swamp Slogger
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cerebovssquire wrote:It seems to me that if you pick a race that forces you to deal with negative skill modifiers it's pure luck if you survive long enough to see the temple, let alone the Lair.
Probably you need to learn to run away more. Ds aren't a bad race for streaking, though far from the best. You might also be playing a class too weak for your current skill level, or a class too weak for any skill level* (CK, Wn). Also, this is a huge generalisation, what's with Tr and Ce who will commonly have negative aptitudes being used a lot.
In addition, the difference between 0 and -1 apts is really small. Ds can be considered a Hu with good muts.
*for winning reliably
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Konebred wrote:I would go with trying a caster too. Melee seems to burn out after lair when your skills just aren't up to par unless you luck out on some good wands early or get demonic guardian to at least level 2 early. Try a fire mage of Vehemet. You can get fireball going really quickly, and sticky flame can kill pretty much anything through lair.
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dpeg wrote:Feedback on the individual DS mutations is very valuable: lists are certainly appreciated!
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pubby wrote:I don't like talons when there are hooves because hooves are better.
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dpeg wrote:Design-wise, it was an attempt to have a "go casting" DS mutation. That's not so easy, and there were a number of purely physical mutations already.
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galehar wrote:dpeg wrote:Design-wise, it was an attempt to have a "go casting" DS mutation. That's not so easy, and there were a number of purely physical mutations already.
How about changing it to an active ability that converts some HP to MP, similar to sublimation of blood? I think something like that was discussed on ##crawl-dev a while ago.
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dpeg wrote:galehar: But if there's only a problem with the power, we can keep it passive. In general, I think that passive abilities are better than active ones -- HP2MP wouldn't be spammed, so it'd be okay. Was someone in ##crawl-dev afraid of abuse? E.g. letting yourself hit by a puny monster to get MP back up? I cannot imagine that that's a good course in actual situations.
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Deimos wrote:I don't really know if mut tweaks really will help. Unless you get them early, your ability to mutate is null during the hardest part of the game. I think if we could be guaranteed a early mutation, this might ease up on the pain an early DS has.
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dpeg wrote:Open issue: Nightstalker is strong but not always fun, as exploration takes much longer. Dismissed: a Nightstalker toggle (overlaps with Darkness spell). Also dismissed: You have full LOS but it shrinks (to Nightstalker size) if enemies come into sight (flucuating LOS size is too fiddly). Perhaps: Monsters in standard-LOS but outside of Nightstalker-LOS act like you're invisible.
dpeg wrote:Open issue: Some player quit when they get the monstrous DS set. Is this a concern?
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dpeg wrote:3. Following Okawaru (silently) prevents Demon Guardian from coming up.
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palin wrote:dpeg wrote:3. Following Okawaru (silently) prevents Demon Guardian from coming up.
And what about it being optional? A lot of times you don't want your allies to die, but if you are in high tension a powerful demon can save your life, and you can stand some Oka penance for your life...
The interface could be as simple as a Y/N question, even if I'm concerned that a Y/N question which pops out not in response to active player action could be annoying...
Slime Squisher
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cerebovssquire wrote:It would be extremely annoying considering Demonic Guardian frequency. Said frequency is also the reason why it sucks so much with Okawaru.
As long as "prevents Demonic Guardian from coming up" doesn't mean "surpresses spawning" but instead "you get a different mutation to replace it", that is a much smoother solution (and also how I read dpeg's post).
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varsovie wrote:P.S. One mutation I would like to have is "holiness" (or redemption). Tier 1, You do not receive extra dmg from holy weapons and loose extra dmg with demonic weapon. Tier 2, Can wield weapons of holy wrath, but cannot use demonic weapons. Tier 3, Can worship good gods.
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palin wrote:Ooh I just read better. I assumed you got the mutation but not the benefits. And what happens if you worship Oka after you got the mutation?
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dpeg wrote:Here are the results of a not so short ##crawl-dev discussion:
1. Green/yellow scales give their resistances at level 2.
2. Powered by Pain is replaced by getting MP from killing casters.
3. Following Okawaru (silently) prevents Demon Guardian from coming up.
4. Tentative: Augmention is reversed: it buffs you while you're at high Health (akin to Sword of Power).
5. Tentative new DS mutation: elemental attacks have a chance to temporarily provide the corresponding resistance.
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galehar wrote:A very annoying game, but why would you?
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palin wrote:galehar wrote:A very annoying game, but why would you?
No particular reason, but I think you're penalized for a late temple and get a bonus for a early altar this way.
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dpeg wrote:3. Following Okawaru (silently) prevents Demon Guardian from coming up.
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