Enhancing Sticks to Snakes

[XuaXua]

I used to think that + enchantment (not brand) on arrows meant something for Sticks to Snakes, and Henzell tells me only Poison brand or size of sacrifice adds anything.

As it stands (and Felids, restricted to arrows, get kinda jacked on this), we get:

adders (poison)
ball pythons (weak but constriction)
sometimes water moccasins (poison and tough)
rarely black mambas (poison and speed and tough)
anacondas (constriction and tough, but only from larger weapons, I believe)

These snakes persist for a random duration and do not bring back the sacrificed weapon.

I am not certain this spell experiences the utility it should, probably because it is only a Transmutation school spell; it is basically a transmuter's ranged weapon (I use it against jellies and spores and sometimes centaurs). Since it requires ammo and outside of Transmutation, other than maybe a bow user or two, I suspect others rely on Summonings.

Franky, I love this spell, but I think it could be given additional utility if it generated some pretty darn unique or nifty snakes depending on what was sacrificed beyond the current list.

[galehar]

arrows will only get you adders, ball pythons and water moccasins. To get black mambas and anacondas, you need a snackable melee weapon and high spell power. Those are pretty great for a L2 spell already.

[pratamawirya]

Arrows will eventually get you a large and cheap army of adders and moccasins. It's like a ultra-powered Summon Butterflies or something. Really fun.

[njvack]

I also like s2s -- spell power helps a lot with generating more and better snakes. I've never bothered humping big sticks around to try and get anacondas. Anacondas are really good, but 15 adders and 6 water moccasins get the job done with a lot less inventory management. (And yay! No more ammo enchantment means even less inventory management!) You'll never get anything bigger than mocs from ammo.

At modest power, you're pretty likely to get at least a moc from a snakable wieldable weapon. At 90 power, your chances of each snake are:

  Code:

adder: 14.8%
moccasin: 29.5%
mamba: 22.2%
anaconda: 33.3%


Considering how many clubs and bows are in the dungeon (and that you'll be training tmut a lot) that's a lot of anacondas if you want them.

[pubby]

What about magical staves?

It would be pretty cool to turn a staff of death into a snake zombie, staff of ice into simulacrum, wizardry into a guardian serpent, etc.

[XuaXua]

arrows will only get you adders, ball pythons and water moccasins. To get black mambas and anacondas, you need a snackable melee weapon and high spell power. Those are pretty great for a L2 spell already.

L2 is great, but the spell power is gauged by your Transmutations and this spell was given a very wide range.

I figure if your Transmutations is high enough, that's when you should unlock "cool" stuff beyond the increased chance of an Anaconda over a ball python. Gives more of an incentive to train it up, considering there are zero enhancers for Transmutation in the game.

Sacrificing Enhancer staves (and artifact weapons/staves, if they can be sacrificed) are obscure enough that they should give a persistent, non-expiring (and non-leveling; no "Your snake looks more experienced") serpent, with initial power (and/or chance of awesomeness) based on spell power, and ability based on the type of staff or brand of weapon used.

Sacrificing Branded weapons/arrows at high Spell Power (or a significantly high success) should have a chance to create a new creature specific to the brand. It's not like we don't have all the amusing bat types.
- Common Flame/Frost-branded arrows used could generate a steam/snow snake of some kind.
- Obscure Dispersal-branded arrows could create a chaos serpent with a chance of being hostile, or a blink snake.
- Rare Reaping-branded arrows (do we still have those, or is it just the scythe?) would create persistent, floor-restricted undead snakes.
- Primary brands on large, non-arrow weapons should create even more distinct, flavored monsters. Some might only be able to be created in water (electric creates Electric Eels; dies immediately if not in water).

The above are not guaranteed; as with creating Water Moccasins with arrows, you need a high level of (Tmut / Spell Power / Very Good Success Roll) to achieve these. It's an added incentive to train higher.

Enhancing TMut:
- Add a new staff that gives Transmutation enhancement, can be transformed via Sticks to Snakes into a serpent, and changes back to staff form if killed.

[rebthor]

My biggest issue with sts was that at the end of the spell, poof arrows. Now granted the last time I seriously played Tm was also when they were grenade (potion) chuckers and I'm sure that the changes to ammo have eased this even more, but it would have been much easier if at the end of the spell they turned back into sticks assuming they weren't killed. The normal mulching rules could even be applied for all I would have cared then.

As it was, I rarely used it after around lair. Of course, that also as around was far as I usually got

[XuaXua]

As it was, I rarely used it after around lair. Of course, that also as around was far as I usually got

As you know, I'm currently running a Felid Transmuter with very limited ranged attacks (read: none and I've been talked out of Conjurations; GET BACK HERE, BLACK MAMBA THAT IS RUNNING AWAY!). Sticks to Snakes really is what I've been using for ranged, and it does work out for it in a sense.

[njvack]

My take on this is: s2s is powerful for its niche and kinda special-casey as it is. Adding more complexity would take time to implement (right now, it looks like the snakes are mechanically summons) and also impose a cost in future changes. It's probably just not worth it.

[rebthor]

My take on this is: s2s is powerful for its niche and kinda special-casey as it is. Adding more complexity would take time to implement (right now, it looks like the snakes are mechanically summons) and also impose a cost in future changes. It's probably just not worth it.

Like I alluded, it's probably much less cumbersome now since (almost) all arrows stack and a Tm probably doesn't have an inventory just full of potion bombs too.

[n1000]

S2Sing the Staff of Dispater should give you a Serpent of Hell ally

[Eji1700]

Very small question-
Does sticks to snakes really need to require you to wield the item in question? I guess it matters as a balance point but i always found it strange and obnoxious that it doesn't just use the same interface as Evaporate. Would a small mechanics change really be that gamebreaking?

[n1000]

That would remove the fun of accidentally transmuting a staff of wizardry!

[twelwe]

If you buff sticks to snakes you have to buff snakes to sticks also

[njvack]

That would remove the fun of accidentally transmuting a staff of wizardry!

You can inscribe items (I think !D) to prevent this. The spell should maybe prompt about enhancer staves, though. You probably don't want to transmute them, and there aren't enough of them in the game for it to get annoying even if you do.

[Stormfox]

In your init file:

autoinscribe = staff:!D

That will take care of staffs, quarterstaves, and all enhancers.