Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk


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Blades Runner

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Post Friday, 4th February 2011, 02:57

Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

Have the rules on how monsters sleep/paralyze characters changed in 0.8 ?

I lost my last three 0.8 characters, two of them l27, to sleep or paralysis. In the past, this had been quite rare for me. Is this just a string of bad luck (or stupidity) or have the rules changed?

TGW

Halls Hopper

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Post Friday, 4th February 2011, 03:04

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

Paralysis is harder to resist now.

Yes, really.

Blades Runner

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Post Friday, 4th February 2011, 04:09

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

Any chance devs would consider lowering the chance of being paralyzed (a second time) when already paralyzed?

Most recently, an ancient lich took my 220hp character by casting paralyze, then summon demon hordes, then paralyze a few dozen times. I don't mind losing 150hp in a go -- that's why I have scrolls of blinking and a corner to hide behind. But 220hp without the chance to screw up otherwise is tough.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 4th February 2011, 09:44

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

TGW wrote:Paralysis is harder to resist now.

Yes, really.

You sure? I don't remember such change.

smock wrote:Most recently, an ancient lich took my 220hp character by casting paralyze, then summon demon hordes, then paralyze a few dozen times.

Were you slowed? We try to prevent chain paralysis but it's not perfect.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 4th February 2011, 15:27

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

galehar wrote:
TGW wrote:Paralysis is harder to resist now.

Yes, really.

You sure? I don't remember such change.

smock wrote:Most recently, an ancient lich took my 220hp character by casting paralyze, then summon demon hordes, then paralyze a few dozen times.

Were you slowed? We try to prevent chain paralysis but it's not perfect.

Well the very commit you posted scales paralysis enchantment power by 6/5 before the MR check
http://crawl-ref.git.sourceforge.net/gi ... e5a320feac

e: Not to mention that MR was decreased to some extent for many characters by moving the enchantments MR bonus to the staff of enchantments.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 4th February 2011, 15:36

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

caotto wrote:Well the very commit you posted scales paralysis enchantment power by 6/5 before the MR check
http://crawl-ref.git.sourceforge.net/gi ... e5a320feac

e: Not to mention that MR was decreased to some extent for many characters by moving the enchantments MR bonus to the staff of enchantments.

Hey, you're lurking in here ;)
Thanks. Next time I post a link to a commit, I'll read the code first, not just the commit message!
So yeah, the scaling up of paralysis is probably not necessary. Maybe we should revert it.
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Blades Runner

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Post Friday, 4th February 2011, 16:30

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

Heres' how I died:

  Code:
464841 Koberz the Slayer (level 27, -5/236 HPs)
             Began as a Kobold Berserker on Feb 2, 2011.
             Was a High Priest of Trog.
             Slain by a Cacodemon (14 damage)
             ... summoned by an ancient lich
             ... on Level 8 of the Vaults on Feb 3, 2011.
             The game lasted 08:25:20 (130273 turns).

Koberz the Slayer (Kobold Berserker)                              Turns: 130273, Time: 08:25:20

HP  -5/236       AC 17     Str 19      Exp: 27/964361 (1)
MP  25/25        EV  3     Int  5      God: Trog [*****.]
Gold 4097        SH  0     Dex 29      Spells:  0 memorised, 28 levels left

Res.Fire  : + . .   See Invis. : +   a - +7,+9 quick blade (stab) {!f!Q}
Res.Cold  : + . .   Warding    : .   L - +2 elf robe {rC+ rF+}
Life Prot.: + . .   Conserve   : .   r - +1 dwarf shield {AC+3}
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .   F - +1 helmet "Ces Eham" {rElec rPois rN+}
Res.Poison: +       Clarity    : +   B - +0 cloak of Sloth {Dex+4 Acc+1 Dam+3 Stlth
Res.Elec. : +       Spirit.Shd : .   v - +2 pair of gauntlets
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .   D - +2 pair of boots {run}
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .   h - amulet of clarity
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .   P - +5,+6 ring of slaying
Saprovore : + + .   Ctrl.Flight: .   M - ring "Bocvod" {+Lev SInv}

@: paralysed, quick, quite resistant to hostile enchantments, very stealthy

...
Message History

You block the ufetubus' attack.
The ufetubus hits you but does no damage.
The ufetubus completely misses you.
The ancient lich gestures at you while chanting.
You suddenly lose the ability to move!
The Cacodemon hits you!
You die...

...
130255 | Vault:8 | Noticed an ancient lich
130266 | Vault:8 | Lost mutation: Your mind is acute (Int +1).
130269 | Vault:8 | HP: 7/236 [Balrug/divine providence[an ancient lich] (13)]
130271 | Vault:8 | HP: 3/236 [midge[an ancient lich] (5)]
130273 | Vault:8 | Slain by a Cacodemon
130273 | Vault:8 | Killed monsters: 37 trivial, 104 easy, 79 tough, 0 nasty; 82 corpses


It looks like I wasn't slowed.

I'm not sure on which turn I was paralyzed but it looks like I took a whole lot of damage quickly. I was surrounded by an balrug, ancient lich and cacodemon (and his summoned buddies). I only remember being a full health and approaching the lich (4 turns); I don't remember hitting the lich but I may have gotten a hit or two in (turns 13059-60). After being paralyzed I had only one turn to act, after which I became paralyzed again. It turns out that a potion of heal wounds is not the right choice. Blinking would have gotten me further from the fray but I might have died anyway as I would have been in Balrug range. Having only two turns to act out of 12+ seems a bit harsh, but not as bad as I initially thought.

This KoBr was really quite strong: it was ripping through V:8 without much more than a scratch.

Right after that I lost an early MDFi (woohoo, AC works again!) to Yuif's chaos -- this time, petrification.

  Code:
208 Dwarfy the Covered (level 4, -2/37 HPs)
             Began as a Mountain Dwarf Fighter on Feb 3, 2011.
             Slain by Crazy Yiuf
             ... wielding a +2,+4 quarterstaff of chaos
              (10 damage)
             ... on Level 3 of the Dungeon.
             The game lasted 00:07:27 (2213 turns).

Dwarfy the Covered (Mountain Dwarf Fighter)                         Turns: 2213, Time: 00:07:27

HP  -2/37        AC  6     Str 21      Exp: 4/94 (0), need: 87
MP   2/2         EV  2     Int  6      God:
Gold 143         SH  0     Dex 11      Spells:  0 memorised,  3 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : .   a - +0 dwarf hand axe
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : .   m - +0 dwarf scale mail
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .   c - +0 dwarf shield
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .   (no helmet)
Res.Poison: .       Clarity    : .   (no cloak)
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .   (no gloves)
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .   (no boots)
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .   (no amulet)
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .   (no ring)
Saprovore : . . .   Ctrl.Flight: .   (no ring)

@: petrified, mildly poisoned, slightly resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy

...

Message History

* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You feel sick. Crazy Yiuf completely misses you.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You feel sick.
Crazy Yiuf hits you with a quarterstaff of chaos!
You die...

...

  2200 | D:3     | Noticed Crazy Yiuf
  2213 | D:3     | Slain by Crazy Yiuf
  2213 | D:3     | Killed monsters: 0 trivial, 0 easy, 0 tough, 0 nasty; 0 corpses



My last FOUR characters to make it past L2 died to immobilization. Time to take red wasps more seriously!

When I cast ensorcelled hibernation on a monster and it wakes up before I kill it, it's immune to ensorcelled hibernation for a while. Maybe conferring a similar advantage on @s would keep paralysis dangerous and interesting but make it more escapable?

TGW

Halls Hopper

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Post Friday, 4th February 2011, 20:31

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

If a paralysis nerf is desired then reduced duration would be good. Changing the MR check just makes it more random or less random; nerfing the actual effect to somewhere between "brain feed" and the current "instant kill from full HP" should be the target.

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Post Sunday, 6th February 2011, 18:20

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

Wow, this is no joke ... I just lost what was probably my favorite crawl character ever to an instadeath paralysis by a vampire knight. I turned a corner, got paralyzed, and died before I woke up. Level 19 character with great evasion, armor, and shields gone in a blink with no chance to save himself.

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Post Sunday, 6th February 2011, 19:27

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

I had maybe 3 turns to act actually, but that really shouldn't matter. If there is to be a threat like this that means near certain death once you're hit with it, it should belong to a special Unique, or something ... Not any old creature that happens to have a wand of paralysis, or the spell ffs.

I lost a decent character like this the other day to Grinder who took me from full health to dead before I could touch him due to perma paralysis (I think the spell is in his arsenal).


Perma-paralysis or anything akin to it has never worked well in any game. It nearly ruined both releases of Ultima Online and Dark Ages of Camelot, and no good game I've ever played has left it in as either a player ability or a monster ability.

I like the idea of a monster being able to render a PC completely stunned for perhaps 2 or 3 turns, but anything beyond that is just dumb, and furthermore, once stunned, the PC (and monster for that matter) should gain stun immunity for something like 100 turns so that it can't be chain cast.

I use the term stunned here to mean paralyzed. In most games I've played, there are 3 main kinds of CC:

1) Mezmerize - Player is immobilized for a fixed period or until he takes damage. This is sometimes called sleep.
2) Root - Player cannot move for a given duration, but can attack and cast spells (kind of like nets).
3) Stun - Player cant do jack ***t for a given number of turns.

That 3rd type is poison for games and should really be used sparingly IMO.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Sunday, 6th February 2011, 20:14

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

With the exception of the wand of paralysis, which should probably be removed or nerfed for this very reason, paralysis as a monster spell *is* restricted to a handful of monsters that you can recognize in advance. When you run into a vampire knight, you should not let it have line-of-sight to you at any time if at all possible. Separate it from any other monsters, and equip stasis if you have it.

Grinder is a bit of a special case, because he's been moved to a more shallow depth than before for testing purposes. He will probably be tweaked again.

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Post Sunday, 6th February 2011, 20:35

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

the "No chance to save myself" line comes from the fact that as soon as I was paralyzed that was it (and I didn't know I would be). Might of well have been a drawbridge falling on me in nethack the first time I came to the castle.

I didn't know that vampire nights had such a dangerous paralysis attack. I've fought many in the past and never seen this behavior. Same with Grinder. I'm not keen at all on a monster having such an I-win key. Now, this game becomes even more formulaic like nethack where you will have to carry around a "kit" with you and swap out rings/etc to match the demands of your current opponent. We already have enough of that as it is with fire/cold/elec/drain/mutate/corrode.

Like I said in my last thread, a stun of a few turns is one thing, but a chain castable stun is too much, but I've now said that twice and am going to shut up.

Blades Runner

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Post Sunday, 6th February 2011, 21:38

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

Part of the frustration is that paralysis is much more dangerous in trunk than in 0.71. Before 0.8 trunk, I don't ever remember losing a character to paralysis. In trunk, I have died to paralysis more often than to Sig. It'll take some getting used to. Many players will have a sad story or two before we all figure that that now we all need to have a mental list of creature who can paralyze. (I had four of them in a row; I'm a slow learner. I've since I've learned to die from other things.)

The fact is, the ways to for an L27 character to die in one shot just diversified. Is this healthy? Is Crawl better for it? It seems close to breaking the "no insta-deaths" clause of good RL design.

As an aside, this is a great reason to display the name of the spell was resisted after a successful MR check. This would help players learn which opponents have paralysis (yes, I know all that info is public but still).
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Monday, 7th February 2011, 01:24

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

I think that if players/monsters should get Paralyzed, they should get Unstunned once they get hit.
Very Similar to Ensorcelled Hibernation.

This will turn the spell into a means of preventing Players/Monsters from running away, while still allowing the player to react.
(I mean you took away the Poison Arrow Gating gun, so it only seems fair that Para-Chaining is removed too)

Mines Malingerer

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Post Monday, 7th February 2011, 04:34

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

omndra wrote:I think that if players/monsters should get Paralyzed, they should get Unstunned once they get hit.
Very Similar to Ensorcelled Hibernation.

This will turn the spell into a means of preventing Players/Monsters from running away, while still allowing the player to react.
(I mean you took away the Poison Arrow Gating gun, so it only seems fair that Para-Chaining is removed too)


This is currently what Hibernation does, I think. It's a decent effect and it should probably get more use from enemies.

I think it'd make sense that paralyze just stops movement and melee. It's true that this effect is biased against melee characters (although a frail magic character that can't move is a sitting duck), but maybe heavy armors can have an additional MR bonus based on their weight to help offset this. If you don't want to alter the MR system that much, you could also have paralysis block spellcasting (but only spells, unlike silence).

Spider Stomper

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Post Monday, 7th February 2011, 14:05

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

I think paralysis should be harder to resist (as in 8.0) but last much shorter than today. It will still be nasty, especially when used by summoners like Liches. If that leaves some monster too weak, consider giving them petrification instead!
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Blades Runner

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Post Monday, 7th February 2011, 16:52

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

So you just wait until you get paralyzed and then read one of your 50 scrolls of teleportation?

I kinda like it because it differentiates paralysis from sleep. (And it's not a terrible model for how paralysis works in this world.) But it's probably too powerful as is, so other aspects of paralysis would probably have to be buffed.

In 0.4, the player spell petrify replaced the now defunct player spell paralysis. Does anyone know why? (And why do opponents only get the use petrify through the chaos brand?)

Mines Malingerer

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Post Monday, 7th February 2011, 18:53

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

KoboldLord wrote:With the exception of the wand of paralysis, which should probably be removed or nerfed for this very reason, paralysis as a monster spell *is* restricted to a handful of monsters that you can recognize in advance. When you run into a vampire knight, you should not let it have line-of-sight to you at any time if at all possible. Separate it from any other monsters, and equip stasis if you have it.

Grinder is a bit of a special case, because he's been moved to a more shallow depth than before for testing purposes. He will probably be tweaked again.

I used to consistently have little problem with Grinder, and in the last few days on CDO I've died to him at least 4 times, 2 of which were being chain-para'd while he spammed a wand of braining or disintegration on me. Paralyze and pain rband and a random powerful wand? Maybe his wand drops should be nerfed slightly, or his chance to para reduced on the order of another 10-20%? I like the idea of giving it a time buffer similar to hibernation.

I had last week off and played a ton of CAO and had several essentially unavoidable deaths to para - usually by a single enemy who I simply had no means of dealing with or escaping at the time I ran into them. I agree that para seems way stronger, until this point on CAO/CDO I've only lost one character which I recall to para, and that was being sandwiched by an ogre mage and a dragon around Vault 6 which I could easily melee down, and then having an eye and more stuff walk into sight and immediately hit me while my MR wasn't being worn.. :(

Also, why can enemies (at least player ghosts, which did this to me recently) stack confuse before it wears out? If you used up your healing potions you're already bad enough off.. :(

Snake Sneak

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Post Monday, 7th February 2011, 19:05

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

KoboldLord wrote:Grinder is a bit of a special case, because he's been moved to a more shallow depth than before for testing purposes. He will probably be tweaked again.


Good -- he's too tough on D:2.

Dungeon Master

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Post Monday, 7th February 2011, 21:04

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

I'm not a big fan of paralysis. The fact that it is often (way to suddenly) fatal is bad, but what I mainly dislike about it is that it's unfun and uninteresting tactically. What I'm about to write here isn't specifically a 0.8 issue but this is the best place to post it.

To show why paralysis is flawed, one only needs to look through crawl's various means of immobilizing you or restricting your movement:

Hold (from throwing nets): interesting effect in that you can struggle free, act in a limited way, etc.
Mesmerize: Again, you can act but movement is restricted, with the interesting addition that the effect is broken by killing the source.
Slow: A bad thing to have (though not as bad in 0.8), can get you killed but there are ways of dealing with it
Confuse: Most actions are blocked, but you can cure it with potions.
Sleep: You lose all control, but wake up easily. This gives you a chance to react and not be put to sleep again, and isn't a death sentence.
Petrify (not a monster spell, but could be interesting as one): Slows before paralyzing, gives damage resistance while paralyzed - less deadly than para but more importantly gives a reaction time before the bad part kicks in.

All of these are interesting effects because you can adapt to them. Of course, it is always better for you to not get hit in the first place, but the point is that if you do get hit, there is something you can do about it. This is one of the best features of crawl - outside of the very early game, there is usually some sort of tactical move you can do in a bad situation. Another important thing to note is that none of these effects remove control, except for sleep (in very short durations only) and confuse (on mummies and liches, which are special cases).

Paralysis on the other hand doesn't have nearly as much choice involved. You basically have two options: (a) load up on MR or put on stasis to avoid the effect entirely, or (b) get hit with it and hope you don't die. I think both of these are bad.

The problem with (a) is that it is that the player's goal is avoiding paralysis rather than coping with it or managing it. I can't think of any other effects in crawl that are like this - usually you'll want to avoid them, but there's always something you can do as a backup plan. (As a side note: this tactic of avoiding paralysis is actually pretty effective, - there are a few foils (zot traps, giant eyeballs, wasps if you don't have rpois) but in general you can avoid dying to paralysis if you prepare for it. In other words, I'm not arguing here that paralysis is too deadly, although it could very well be).

The problem with (b) is that all you can really do is hope. You completely lose control of your character and are subjected entirely to the whims of the rng. You can't even see what's going on, really. The issue here is part tactical, but it is also very much psychological. Players (including myself) do not like being taken out of the game like this. Even being able to just see yourself immobilized there while enemies move and attack you would be an improvement (right now you just get paralyzed and are hit with message spam). Once you get paralyzed, it's a crapshoot. Will it be a long duration or a short one? Will you survive? And so on.

Regarding this I can think of three improvements to paralysis: the first would be letting the player see what's happening. This wouldn't even begin to address the major issues with the effect, but it at least would remove part of the psychological "oops, you're dead now" sting that it has.

The second improvement would be a shorter duration that has very little (or even no) random variation. The reasoning here is that if you know paralysis always lasts for (say) three turns, you are able to adapt to the effect itself. You can put yourself in a position where you believe you can survive that duration, and will hopefully be able to manage it without having to load up on MR like people do now.

The third improvement would be to prevent chain paralysis entirely by giving the player immunity for one turn after coming out of it. This one is more trivial (gameplay-wise) than the other two suggestions I have, and probably less controversial, but it would make a big difference.


What I'm suggesting would make paralysis less deadly, but the point is just to make it interesting. Even with the suggestions I've made it's a flawed concept - the best would be to just replace all instances of it with more interesting status effects (the game already has a bunch of them, and there are plenty of ideas for more).

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Mines Malingerer

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Post Monday, 7th February 2011, 22:07

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

minmay wrote:
Cybermg wrote:I think it'd make sense that paralyze just stops movement and melee. It's true that this effect is biased against melee characters (although a frail magic character that can't move is a sitting duck), but maybe heavy armors can have an additional MR bonus based on their weight to help offset this. If you don't want to alter the MR system that much, you could also have paralysis block spellcasting (but only spells, unlike silence).

So you just wait until you get paralyzed and then read one of your 50 scrolls of teleportation?


Yes, but you face the risk of landing in a very bad spot, still completely immobilized, and have to put up with the few turns before teleport kicks in. You can still defend yourself with all sorts of consumables though - wands, rods, potions, the scroll of immolation, etc. It would be a bit sucky that your fate depends on where the teleport lands, but that's something that you have to deal with very often anyway. One choice would be whether you think you can defend yourself without movement/attacks/spells, or whether you should teleport and risk landing somewhere worse.

I also like the suggestion above, though
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Dungeon Master

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Post Tuesday, 8th February 2011, 23:26

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

I have fixed chain paralysis. When you get out of paralysis, you're now immune for 1d3 turns.
I've look into adding an automatic pause when paralysed but I realised that there is already a more prompt at each turn you spend paralysed if there is any message in the log. I don't really know how to improve this without making identifying a potion of paralysis a very strange experience to newbies.
<+Grunt> You dereference an invalid pointer! Ouch! That really hurt! The game dies...

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Mines Malingerer

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Post Wednesday, 9th February 2011, 02:58

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

galehar wrote:I have fixed chain paralysis. When you get out of paralysis, you're now immune for 1d3 turns.
I've look into adding an automatic pause when paralysed but I realised that there is already a more prompt at each turn you spend paralysed if there is any message in the log. I don't really know how to improve this without making identifying a potion of paralysis a very strange experience to newbies.

Perhaps the issue isn't that there aren't enough prompts while para'd, but that there is no "_WARNING YOU ARE NOW ABLE TO MOVE FREELY AGAIN!!_" ??

I mean, most "chain para" deaths that peolpe get upset about are from players who aren't savvy enough to carefully and slowly hit -more- until their para wears off, and then they end up losing a turn or moving too quickly and then get para'd again.

1d3 turns is piddling and honestly I don't think you can be literally re-para'd the same turn it wears off, so maybe the issue isn't that (ridiculously small) window when you aren't para-susceptible, so rather than people don't get enough notification that it wore off at all?

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Wednesday, 9th February 2011, 03:40

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

you are wrong, coyo7e
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Wednesday, 9th February 2011, 03:59

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

I think we should play-test the solution before poo-pooing it. Thanks, galehar.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 11th February 2011, 06:05

off topic

coyo7e wrote:a wand of braining


This would be a beautiful thing.
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Friday, 11th February 2011, 18:42

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

EvilMike put it best, but i'd just like to add something to what he said.

In the Gameplay design it is stated that you want players to feel responsible for their deaths. When a player is suddenly frozen and Killed it does not feel like it was their fault. Even when one knows that they didn't take the proper precautionary methods in order to prevent said death it still doesn't feel like it was their fault.

I think Paralysis should Last 2d2.
That with Galehars Paralysis immunity would limit it to the point where its Annoying but not fatal. (Although a Lich could still use that time to peg you with 3 LCS)
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Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 11th February 2011, 21:37

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

We'll see how it goes with the immunity before considering nerfing the duration. So keep reporting insta deaths caused by paralysis.
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Post Friday, 11th February 2011, 21:44

Re: off topic

Grimm wrote:
coyo7e wrote:a wand of braining


This would be a beautiful thing.


It's already in the game! It's called a giant spiked club.

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Post Friday, 11th February 2011, 22:01

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

:lol:

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Post Saturday, 12th February 2011, 15:39

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

Paralysis ***** ***! Third high-level char in a row died today because of it.

EDIT by Napkin: Removed profanity.
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Halls Hopper

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Post Saturday, 12th February 2011, 16:23

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

Yeah, there's no reason removing chaining would make regular paralysis any better. EV characters can easily go from unthreatened to dead without getting any input in between due to paralysis.

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Post Saturday, 12th February 2011, 16:46

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

Napkin wrote:Paralysis ***** ***! Third high-level char in a row died today because of it.


Galehar submitted a patch for this. Try versions post 0.8.0-a0-5120-g57d621c.

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Post Monday, 14th February 2011, 05:40

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

galehar wrote:We'll see how it goes with the immunity before considering nerfing the duration. So keep reporting insta deaths caused by paralysis.


Well, I just lost this character on zig:4 on cdo:
http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/m ... 032312.txt

Paralyzed while hasted and at approximately full hp; killed by 2 pan lords before I could get a turn. Normally, I don't have a problem with paralysis because I'm careful about mr and escape items, but this one got through 'extremely resistant' mr and lasted forever. I certainly wasn't expecting to die on zig:4.
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Post Monday, 14th February 2011, 06:08

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

Yikes, that's the 2nd zig death recently from paralysys. Just a day or two ago MarvinPA lost a character fairly deep in a zig from crystal ball paralysis.

I'm a bit paranoid about paralysis myself and try not to settle for anything lower than "extraordinarily resistant", I'll even go as far as to wield a staff of enchantments... if it's not too cumbersome. Although, I have no idea how that item works in trunk (if it still works). Paralysis really is the worst way to lose a character, in my opinion.

Do you know how many turns that paralysis lasted? It looks like it could have been a long one, but then again that pan lord had dispel undead.

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Post Monday, 28th March 2011, 00:31

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

I think I just lost one to an ogre mage doing some fun confusion/paralysis chaining. I was "@: paralysed, regenerating, confused, flying, very quick, quite resistant to hostile enchantments, stealthy" Apparently not resistant enough! I don't think I was chain-paralyzed, but it looks like I became paralyzed while confused. Nasty!

MR really is more important now. That's good, but no fun to go from ~200HP to 0 in the vaults.

Anyone else having frustrating deaths due to becoming paralyzed while confused?

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Post Monday, 28th March 2011, 04:00

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

No, but I know the feeling pretty well.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 28th March 2011, 19:02

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

If a target is asleep, can a scroll of fear affect it?
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Post Tuesday, 29th March 2011, 00:13

Re: Sleep/paralysis in 0.8 trunk

XuaXua wrote:If a target is asleep, can a scroll of fear affect it?


No.

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