Suggestion for highly enchanted weapons

[danr]

Somehow I find it disappointing that I can have a really epic weapon that's better than most artefacts, but the game just treats it as an ordinary item, apart from it having an ego and being immune to corrosion.

I also hate the feeling of wasting scroll after scroll on one of these weapons to try to get it from +7 to +8 or whatever.

So how about this idea:
When you try to enchant a weapon, and the enchantment fails because the weapon is already highly enchanted, there is a chance (increasing with the level of enchantment already on the weapon) that the weapon, being so charged with magical energy, undergoes some truly epic transformation ("The weapon emits a blinding light and rises up in the air. You decide to name it "[RNG name]")

At this point, it becomes an artefact and can no longer be changed by magic or mundane means. Additionally, perhaps some of the following could also occur:
- It receives some final enchantments
- It has a chance to acquire one or two artefact properties, but hopefully no really bad ones, or this could be a real downer. But probably also not really awesome ones.

I think this could be really cool and fun, and remove some of the tedium / frustration from the enchantment game. After a certain point, the game essentially tells you - okay, this is a really cool weapon, we get it already, here's a final buff, now stop farming pandemonium for scrolls already and get on with your life.

[dpeg]

I understand where you're coming from. This business of making artefacts is the business of gods in Crawl, though. At least so far.

Since I agree that it'd be nice to have more decisions for mid/late game weapon users than just "increase skill in a certain pattern and dump EW scrolls into weapon", here is my take on it. I've been mulling this over for a while, so it's not completely random:

(a) Top tier weapons make use of a second skill (generally, but perhaps not always another weapon skill). This depends on a number of things, I just give an example. Assume for a moment that axes would always attack all adjacent hostile monsters like they do in Brogue (I am seriously proposing to steal this mechanic but let's leave it at the thought experiment for now). You're using a bardiche. If you train Axes while having mastered Polearms, you unlock the axe move. It's not reliable like it is for weapons, but chances increase with skill. In other words, you don't improve any numbers (speed, damage) but you increase the potential of your weapon nonetheless. Ideally, there'd be at least two secondary skills for each top-tier weapons, making for another choice what to spend xp on.

(b) I don't like the randart lottery from EW --> artifactising mundane weapons. As you say yourself, getting a bad property would be a real downer. However, it could get a name (not of the randart list, of course) and a new, combat related property. It could be a visual effect (sparks flowing off for successful hits etc.) and didn't need to occur very often. The point is to stress the bond weapon-player by name and some additional effect.

[Deimos]

Yes.

God knows I am saying that just because I want to behold the badassery that is creating an artifact.

[mageykun]

I think trying to max enchantment on your endgame weapon, only to have it "artefy" and lock out further enchantment would be more frustrating than anything. Especially as decreasing enchantment success rates would give provide a lot of opportunities for this to happen.

Acquiring random randart properties would be worse. Good ones would likely be negligible- bad ones could ruin your weapon.

Basically, enchantment isn't supposed to ever be a bad thing, but this introduces cases where it can be.

I wouldn't mind the ability to 'name' equipment inline instead of in of the inscription field (using something like nethack's call function I guess), but it's hardly necessary.

...I suppose +9,+9 weapons could be automatically converted to a vanilla artefact you get to name. You're pretty much immune to corrosion anyways, so there's no mechanical difference. I'm sure some players will complain they don't want to have to pointless name their weapons for flavor ever game though.

Edit: I got ninja-ed by like everybody. I started out trying to reply to danr. :p

[kefir645]

Wait, which god can make artefacts, i.e. weapons that can't be changed by magical and mundane means?

Turning a weapon into a randart (while keeping enchantment) could actually be an interesting Xom ability except, of course, both really bad and really good properties should be possible.

[jejorda2]

Wait, which god can make artefacts, i.e. weapons that can't be changed by magical and mundane means?

Okawaru and Trog give artefact weapon gifts all the time.

[Patashu]

Wait, which god can make artefacts, i.e. weapons that can't be changed by magical and mundane means?

Okawaru and Trog give artefact weapon gifts all the time.

And in particular there's one called 'The Wrath of Trog'.

[kefir645]

I mean making artefacts from mundane weapons. TSO used to do this. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[njvack]

Okawaru and Trog give artefact weapon gifts all the time.

Yeah, but Oka's artefacts are just laying around in his attic, and Trog's from his, um, corpse pile? I don't think either of them are making artefacts.

Chei used to artefactize armour when you made it ponderous, but that was rather irritating.

[danr]

I always assumed it was some ancient wizard who created these weapons. If it needs to be a God, it could be the player's god who does it.

My main idea is for flavour and gameplay, not as much for making really badass weapons. In view of that, here's a more modest proposal:

- It only happens in late-game branches
- and when tension is high
- with high piety
- chances of this happening are extremely low until the weapon is +6 or better in both stats.
- It always gets a single, good randart property, and no further enchantment.

Having a single randart property would not make it an amazing weapon, but it would be a good tradeoff for not being able to enchant it further.

[XuaXua]

How about adding a chance of this with Scrolls of Vorpalization used on branded items?

[danr]

That's also an interesting idea. I find scrolls of vorpalization to be not nearly as awesome as you'd expect them to be, because by the time you find one you probably have your pick of branded weapons anyway, and there's a decent chance you actually have an artefact weapon that has an ego, high enchantments, plus some cool perks as well.

But I just feel gypped somehow that my +8,+7 quick blade of holy wrath is just an "ordinary" weapon. I've taken to inscribing them with names, but it feels fake.

To be totally honest, I'd trade the chance of further enchantment just for it becoming an artefact, without even any extra properties. It becomes another kind of trophy for the game - you escape the dungeon with the Orb of Zot, the Horn of Geryon, a bunch of runes, AND a weapon that you made really epic. Frankly, of all those trophies, I'd find the weapon the most satisfying.

[BlackSheep]

It could be an Okawaru capstone at 6* piety. Apply a EWIII and artefact-ize your weapon with a nice little inscription.

[njvack]

But I just feel gypped somehow that my +8,+7 quick blade of holy wrath is just an "ordinary" weapon. I've taken to inscribing them with names, but it feels fake.

To be totally honest, I'd trade the chance of further enchantment just for it becoming an artefact, without even any extra properties. It becomes another kind of trophy for the game - you escape the dungeon with the Orb of Zot, the Horn of Geryon, a bunch of runes, AND a weapon that you made really epic. Frankly, of all those trophies, I'd find the weapon the most satisfying.

I do agree with the "I want to be able to make my sweet sword into an artefact" sentiment, though I don't think I'd want it to kick in until +9. It would be eminently satisfying.

To answer minmay's "Why?" question: because optimizing gameplay is not the whole of the Crawl experience for every player. The game would be less fun to me without unique speech or item descriptions or randart names, though it'd be mechanically identical.

[XuaXua]

Why?

Because the goal of a game is to have fun, not necessarily win.

[danr]

My only concern with having it kick in only at +9 is that then every time an artefact was created this way, it would have +9 as its stats. That would be a bit monotonous in a way, and inconsistent with other artefacts, which have wildly different enchantments.

[blackcustard]

Artefactize the weapon when it's done something cool, like killing a pan lord, helping you recover several runes, or slain 500 monsters. Doesn't have to get any artefact like properties, just give it its own name. The kind of thing your character can stick in a stone for a young adventurer to find and use a century later, knowing that they are holding the blade that Joe Haxxor used to slay the Pan Lord yuhjdfxx.

[XuaXua]

I've said before, track the kills with a weapon. I recall the pen and paper RPG "Earthdawn" (a prequel to the more popular "Shadowrun"), where artifacts gained power and legendary status and associated abilities by having notable history.

[njvack]

Not every magical weapon is forged of meteorite iron under an unusual planetary conjunction, inscribed with gilded runes of ancient power, and imbued with supernatural strength and sharpness through mystical rites and sorcerous incantations. In truth, many of the most powerful weapons of lore are possessed of far humbler beginnings -- common metal, torn from an enemy's grasp in a dire emergency. If the warrior survives the day, the weapon will likely be kept. Polished, sharpened, and re-sharpened, it will be carried from battle to battle, becoming as much a part of the man as his own arm, and as his name rises from warrior to hero to legend, so too will an aura of reverence and awe begin to surround the blade. Legend and belief are powerful forces, and it should be no surprise that a powerful artifact might have become powerful simply by dint of everyone believing it to be powerful. That is, after all, where the gods came from.

"Why's That Thing Like That?" (excerpt),
by Dr. E. G. Boobarnacle, PhD.

http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/index.php/Trusty

[Stormfox]

That is one of the more awesome bits of writing I've seen in a video game in quite a while. The fact that it was written for an analogue to TrBe (smash things, eat, repeat until win) makes it that much more awesome.

[jejorda2]

I've said before, track the kills with a weapon.

That could make a fun god idea. On choosing the god, you get a moderate damage base type artefact weapon with no enchantment or properties, and the weapon gets perks as you gain piety. "Kill with the weapon" seems like a reasonable conduct. Maybe in practice it would be too much like getting weapon gifts from Trog and Okawaru, but without the choice among the different gifts.