New Race: Spider People


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Temple Termagant

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Post Thursday, 3rd May 2012, 08:05

New Race: Spider People

I don't know what the name of the race should be, but I'm imagining a dryder from DnD.

They would have the lower body of a spider, upper body of a human.

Mutations:

Deformed Body
Natural AC (from 0 increasing to +3 as level increases)
No Boots
Fangs
Gain poisonous unarmed melee attack (to go with fangs)
Swift 1

An ability called throw web that would act like an innate ability to throw nets that become more durable as you increase in level.

Good dex/int, low str start.
- 10% hp

good aptitude for dodging

poor aptitude for armor.

Just throwing this out as an idea.

Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Thursday, 3rd May 2012, 12:00

Re: New Race: Spider People

This sounds a lot like a centaur, but with branded unarmed (which sounds overpowered for the early game, especially combined with fast movement) and limitless nets. I don't understand the drawbacks to this race that would make the choice between this and a centaur interesting. Or between this and a human, other than boots, but the best boots aren't better than innate fast movement.

Blades Runner

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Post Thursday, 3rd May 2012, 12:33

Re: New Race: Spider People

1) Needs poison vulnerability (to match the in-game spiders). Maybe some other vulnerability as well?
2) Should have "clinging" as a racial ability
3) Good poison, transmutation, hexes magic aptitudes.
4) Good stealth aptitude

If you're going for the full DnD take on them, you could apply some elven characteristics as well.

You'd also need them as opponents in-game.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Thursday, 3rd May 2012, 12:43

Re: New Race: Spider People

This is also kinda short on details.

What size are these guys (tiny, little, small, normal, large, huge)? Can they wear normal armour at all? Are they going to get bardings like the other -taur species? How do you balance the infinite spider nets? Does it cost food/breath/mp etc? Do any of the racial abilities (poison, web) become available at a certain level, or are they all available from the get go? Do the abilities scale up at certain levels? What's their diet like? Is there any reason they should be considered evil, or hated / disbarred by any of the gods? (I could see Zin hating them, and maybe TSO- though he does accept green dracs). What kind of roles are they good for? (melee, hybrid, caster, stabber, etc). How fast do they level? Any other skills they'd be particularly good / bad at? (I always think it's important to consider what kind of casters a new species would work as).

At the very least, I'd say you'd want to lose the speed- it's too useful, and makes any potential spider-taurs seem to much like reflavoured centaurs. Natural AC doesn't seem right for a spider to me- and is another advantage they maybe shouldn't get. I'd say give them innate clinging- wall clinging that doesn't run out is a mechanic no other race has access to, and might be an interesting gimmick to build around.

Possibly a drink from corpses mechanic like vampires? One that takes several turns to complete (inject poison, dissolve organs into delicious slurry, drink. Only works on fresh corpses). An inability (or penalty to using at least) of chunks might be a good, flavorful penalty. (although, then what do you do in the endgame? Allow permafood, but it's just not as good?)

Edit: ninja-ed!

I second rPois-.

Hrm. Looking at skills, we're moving away from "poison centaur" and towards "faster fragiler naga". Need to mix it up a little more-

Poor charms (offset good hexes)? Poor fire (webs burn! Spiders no like-y!), decent ice? Maybe a -1 to casting, er -1 or -2 to fighting? Poor to average tloc (used to relying on webs, climbing). Good traps? (seems appropriate- they are ambush predators who make their own) No idea what to do with necro, wind, earth, invo, evo, ect. Also unsure how you'd want to spread weapon apps.
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Barkeep

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Post Thursday, 3rd May 2012, 12:50

Re: New Race: Spider People

One monster mechanic we don't use for players yet is cold-bloodedness -- getting hit by cold inflicts slow. This might be an interesting place to use it. rC could increasingly guard against the effect.
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.
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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Thursday, 3rd May 2012, 13:27

Re: New Race: Spider People

mageykun wrote:This is also kinda short on details.


Do it have a special bond with the spell spider form?

Throwing net is maybe too powerful, maybe the ability to make it only on adjacent tiles could be used.
This way it required a little preparation to use, and can't be used to kite ranged enemy at edge of the LOS.
Maybe the abilities (web, cling, poisonous attack) should happen at specified XP level (1/7/14) but in random order.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Thursday, 3rd May 2012, 18:26

Re: New Race: Spider People

I think if we went with those abilities, it should happen at specific levels. A poison-branded attack would be way too strong at level 1, but by level 14 it would only be situationally useful. Clinging would be nice at level 1, because later on you are incredibly likely to have sources of levitation/flight.

Temple Termagant

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Post Saturday, 5th May 2012, 04:59

Re: New Race: Spider People

I'm kinda throwing the idea out there, I don't want to be an arbiter or anything.

The idea with the poison attack was that you would gain it at a level, not start with it. Same with the web ability.

What's the cling ability? Could someone explain that to me?

I like the vulnerability to poison, but does that mean one poison res item overrides it or you need 2?

Dropping the fast seems fine. Make them less like centaurs

I added the AC bonus part to make up for a lack of boots. Could be dropped if spider barding was added.

Would web be ok if it could only work on adjacent tiles?

Their size would be normal-large (the thing naga's are).

I would make them not inherently evil so all gods are ok, but I can see it working the other way.

I would make them poor at throwing and slings, decent at bows/crossbows.

Good at polearms, staffs, unarmed (or apt 0). Ok at swords, axes. Poor at maces/flails.

Good at dodging, poor armor and shield.

The rest of the aptitudes I'm not sure about.

The specifics of their leveling speed and aptitudes I'm not sure of yet, I don't have enough experience to be able to evaluate balance.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Saturday, 5th May 2012, 05:14

Re: New Race: Spider People

Thymos wrote:What's the cling ability? Could someone explain that to me?

It's something spider form, spiders, cockroaches etc get. They automatically cling to adjacent walls, instead of standing on the floor. This lets you cross over water, deep water, lava, etc. Specialized levitation without the item pickup problems or airstrike vulnerability, basically.

I like the vulnerability to poison, but does that mean one poison res item overrides it or you need 2?

Two I'd think. You'd start out with -1 pips of rPois. Like mummies with rF.

Temple Termagant

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Joined: Friday, 20th April 2012, 18:07

Post Saturday, 5th May 2012, 15:38

Re: New Race: Spider People

Do you think this is a decent enough idea or that it doesn't have a chance in hell of being implemented btw?

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Saturday, 5th May 2012, 16:15

Re: New Race: Spider People

Aptitude-wise, I don't really see the reason why certain melee/ranged weapons are penalized. I'd also give dodging the same aptitude as armor/shields. Why? It may be interesting at a conceptual level to use aptitudes to differentiate species, but it also reduces variety for characters of that type. It makes sense for a spriggan to have better dodging aptitudes than armor, but if there's no clear reason, I'd say let the players decide how to build their characters.

As for the idea itself, I think it could work, with maybe a little tweaking once there's something to test. But there are plenty of good ideas floating around that haven't been coded. So if you code it yourself, the odds of your idea seeing the light of day shoot up dramatically. All those little things like leveling speed are easy to tweak from there. And if you can't do that, at least put it here: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:species:start so it doesn't disappear into the forum abyss.

Dungeon Master

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Post Monday, 7th May 2012, 08:30

Re: New Race: Spider People

Earlier spider person mullings: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php? ... e:arachnid - feel free to add your version to that page. The discussion bits could use some editing too if anyone is up for taking care of the page. ;)

It has one idea not mentioned here previously: all backgrounds start out worshipping a malevolent spider god that is more of a hinderance than a boon. They need to be in Spider Form to get the full benefits of that god, which views the half-spiders a bit of an abomination, preferring pure spiders. The spider god could also be worshipped by other characters with Spider Form. Arachnids can't start with another god, although they can abandon the spider god and take up another god at an altar.

I think the addition of such a god could make a cross between Spider Form -user and a centaur interesting.. (of course I do, it's my own idea :P) while I do like the idea of a half-spider species, I'm not sure it brings something really new to the game. And also, it has been pointed out that *not* having sentinent hybrid monsters in Spider differentiates it from Snake nicely. Not that we would be mandated to put these guys as monsters to Spider's Nest even if they were implemented.

--Eino

Temple Termagant

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Joined: Friday, 20th April 2012, 18:07

Post Sunday, 13th May 2012, 14:39

Re: New Race: Spider People

Ok how about this. The web throw is a breath attack with 2 space range. This is gained at a level.

They also have a 2 space leap that's no faster than moving, but can make tactical retreat viable. This is gained at a level.

Add fangs mutation initially, and at higher levels add poison to their unarmed.

They also have the cling ability initially.

Give them deformed body and no boots, add dryder (or whatever we call this) barding. No extra armor mutation like naga's have.

They level at 140. Have decent aptitudes all around, but poor shields, armor.

They also have poison vulnerability.

Maybe a -10% hp mutation.

I think between the web, cling and leap this would be enough to make them unique and have some different kiting abilities aside from walking quickly to encourage more tactical retreats rather than just boosting speed like centaurs and spriggans, the current best at that.

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