Dungeon Master
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Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.
Dungeon Master
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Lair Larrikin
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mumra wrote:You are talking about broken features, that's a whole different bag to whether something is optional or not; and yes if something is broken it should be fixed or removed. Are labyrinths broken? I think not, at least not in any clear cut way, and certainly not balance-wise.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Dungeon Master
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molari wrote:mumra wrote:You are talking about broken features, that's a whole different bag to whether something is optional or not; and yes if something is broken it should be fixed or removed. Are labyrinths broken? I think not, at least not in any clear cut way, and certainly not balance-wise.
I don't want to make too many assumptions about developer definitions of 'broken or 'grinding' etc. but in their current form ignoring a labyrinth is only 'optional' in the sense that not taking a God is optional i.e. you're making a deliberately poor choice rather than weighing up pros and cons (in gameplay terms). Labyrinths can have spectacular loot with essentially no risk (minotaurs are really rather wimpy) so the only real reason not to do them is because the current mechanics are fiddly or tedious rather than balancing out pros/cons in strategic or tactical terms. I would have thought, and my assumption could be way off, that this is against the developers wishes.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Grimm wrote:I have a notion to make the Lab more interesting by adding a Theseus-style aspect in which you somehow leave a trail and this gives you an advantage in finding the Mino sooner or being able to leave. I can't figure out how it would actually work though.
Dungeon Master
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minmay wrote:Well, this is going by the manual's definition of grinding: "These are activities that have low risk, take a lot of time, and bring some reward." Of course, labyrinths have already been claimed exempt from the design goals anyway. I was just saying that "it's optional" is a terrible argument.
Ziggurat Zagger
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IronJelly wrote:Rather than remove them, what if they were made a tad more dangerous? Rather than a single minotaur, what if about a half dozen minotaurs that go berserk at the sight of the player were wondering around the maze? Now every corner you take, you have a possible risk that a minotaur could charge you. This would also serve to provide corpses, giving those of faster metabolism a chance to survive, and since they would berserk, they would be a challenge, especially in the off-chance you come upon two of them, maybe even one in each direction.
Dungeon Master
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Slime Squisher
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Ziggurat Zagger
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One-Eyed Jack wrote:If you remove maprot and allow explore I'd be fine with them because I could just ignore the maze part and do the food->loot trade with minimal tedium. Adding more monsters and stuff would turn it into an actual portal vault instead of a loot dump, so that would also be good.
Dungeon Master
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evilmike wrote:I recently saw elliptic say something similar on irc: he suggested making them smaller, adding monsters, and increasing the random shifting.
Abyss Ambulator
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evilmike wrote: if you are stuck in a branch where everything is a corridor, this can actually be dangerous with the right monsters).
Dungeon Dilettante
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Dungeon Master
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