The Tavern

skill_focus: when set to true, skills cycle between disabled, enabled and focus in the skill screen. When set to false, they only toggle between enabled and disabled. Setting the option to "toggle" adds a toggle to the skill screen to change the behaviour in-game.

The idea is to replace this option by a skill_allocate option that can take either "single", "normal", "focus" or any combination of them. In single mode, only one skill is enabled at any time. This should be much more ergonomic for many players. Normal mode is the same as skill_focus = off, and focus is the same skill_focus = on (the default right now). If you set it to more than one value, you get a switch (named allocate) in the skill menu. Setting skill_allocate to "normal, focus" would be identical to setting the current skill_focus option to "toggle".

People seems to think that too many switches in the skill menu are bad, so I'll probably keep the status quo for default and set the option to focus.

I've considered other names for the option/switch, like training, spread, share or distribute. "Even" could be used instead of "normal", since it means "even distribution". Anyway, I think this is better: [allocate:single/normal/focus]

Ideas, comments?

I'm not quite sure how this is different than deselecting all skills except one in manual mode.

I would like to see a feature where you set a maximum level for a skill to reach. One it's hit, you're thrown into the skill screen to pick another.
You can pick multiple skills to levels.

this seems like a great idea - "single" would make the initial skill management faster . I'd probably use "single, focus" so once the character is up and running I can set a few skills and not have to keep going back to the 'm'.

I'd like this. I've been wanting an easy way to select one skill at a time. This idea sounds a lot better than my suggestion of adding a ctrl hotkey for each letter on the menu.

XuaXua wrote:I'm not quite sure how this is different than deselecting all skills except one in manual mode.

It's faster and more natural-feeling. It's not a huge problem as-is, but a change is definitely worthwhile.

I like this three-tiered system; I probably won't use single myself, but it's good to have the option.

XuaXua wrote:...
I would like to see a feature where you set a maximum level for a skill to reach. One it's hit, you're thrown into the skill screen to pick another.
You can pick multiple skills to levels.

I'd like to have this too. I keep having to watch my skills level up to see when to switch to another.

XuaXua wrote:I would like to see a feature where you set a maximum level for a skill to reach. One it's hit, you're thrown into the skill screen to pick another.
You can pick multiple skills to levels.

I'd also like to see that feature. Not sure how to integrate it in the current interface though.

I'm not sure we need a whole 'nother toggle-able mode to quickly set one skill at a time. Couldn't we do something simple like-

shift + <letter> turns selected skill on and turns all other skills off

That would seem to me to be faster and more convenient than switching training modes.

ldierk wrote:
XuaXua wrote:I would like to see a feature where you set a maximum level for a skill to reach. One it's hit, you're thrown into the skill screen to pick another.
You can pick multiple skills to levels.

I'd also like to see that feature. Not sure how to integrate it in the current interface though.

Something like this would require adding another toggle-able mode selection key into the skill menu. Something like this-

<key> to toggle into cap-setting mode
<letter> selects skill, then waits for <number> + <enter> to set cap. Invalid entries (<n> < current skill, <n> >= 27, non-numerical entries, esc, etc) result in no cap being set. After setting, or failing to set a cap, menu waits for further input.
<key> or esc exits cap-setting mode back to normal skill menu.

If all skills you're training hit their caps, you'd be forced into the m screen to turn something new on, or raise the cap on something, similar to what happens now if you're only training one skill at a time and it hits level 27.

mageykun wrote:shift + <letter> turns selected skill on and turns all other skills off

That is a fantastic idea and I hope that it gets implemented.

shift + <letter> would be great!

I'd love to be able to set caps. I suggested this a while back but others said that they would never use it. I really don't understand why not. If implemented well I would use it continuously.

Perhaps a simpler implementation of caps could mirror that of the drop screen. That is, entering a number between 1 and 27 followed by a letter (# + <letter>) sets the corresponding letter's skill cap to the entered number. When the skill cap is reached, the skill screen is displayed and the skill is turned off. Of course, # + shift + <letter> could set a skill cap while turning off all other skills.

If these were implemented I would use # + shift + <letter> once at the beginning of the game and then exclusively # + <letter> after that.

mageykun wrote:shift + <letter> turns selected skill on and turns all other skills

Nope, shift + letter doesn't work, there's more than 26 skills. However, ctrl+letter was surprisingly easy to implement

XuaXua wrote:I would like to see a feature where you set a maximum level for a skill to reach. One it's hit, you're thrown into the skill screen to pick another.
You can pick multiple skills to levels.

Yeah I know. You keep bringing it up in each skill related thread I make. Really, I don't see the point. The interface would be cumbersome as shown by mageykun's example. Gaining skill levels is announced, you don't need to go in the skill menu to monitor them. And if reading the message log is too much for you, put a more prompt for skill foo reached level x.
I recently added some lua hooks to toggle skill training, so you can try implementing it in lua if you think it's worth it.

Far be it from me to argue with myself.

So is this change in addition to the "single" mode you described in the OP or instead of?

BlackSheep wrote:Far be it from me to argue with myself. So is this change in addition to the "single" mode you described in the OP or instead of?

Well, it could be seen as complementary, but I suddenly lack any motivation for my original suggestion. Will playtest a bit to get a feel of how useful it would be, but I have a strong feeling that it wouldn't.
Will try to implement ctrl+click instead.

Either way, I love the addition. Thanks a lot!

galehar wrote:
BlackSheep wrote:Far be it from me to argue with myself. So is this change in addition to the "single" mode you described in the OP or instead of?

Well, it could be seen as complementary, but I suddenly lack any motivation for my original suggestion. Will playtest a bit to get a feel of how useful it would be, but I have a strong feeling that it wouldn't.
Will try to implement ctrl+click instead.

I prefer your new optimized solution to the original proposed one.

Now that I've compiled and run the new code, it's just as good as I'd hoped. It's a really clean, quick way to activate one skill and then get back to the game.

I love the new Ctrl+Letter option !

galehar wrote:Yeah I know. You keep bringing it up in each skill related thread I make. Really, I don't see the point. The interface would be cumbersome as shown by mageykun's example. Gaining skill levels is announced, you don't need to go in the skill menu to monitor them. And if reading the message log is too much for you, put a more prompt for skill foo reached level x.
I recently added some lua hooks to toggle skill training, so you can try implementing it in lua if you think it's worth it.

Here's one point that I see: many players might use it a lot. I might be wrong about that, of course. I really am surprised that others are of the opinion that players would not use such a feature. Maybe I'm the only one who occasionally misses skill level gain announcements (and is too lazy or ignorant to bother adding prompts).

The interface I suggested, the mechanism used to drop some specified number of items, is simpler than that one in mageykun's example. Perhaps it's still too complex an interface but I don't see how it would add any complexity.

Thanks for adding those lua hooks. I wish I had the skills to try implementing this! I hope that someone will give it a shot.

My apologies if I've just "beaten a dead horse".

force_more_message = skill increases

There you go, copy that line into your init.txt file and you won't miss anymore skill ups.

smock wrote:Here's one point that I see: many players might use it a lot. I might be wrong about that, of course. I really am surprised that others are of the opinion that players would not use such a feature. Maybe I'm the only one who occasionally misses skill level gain announcements (and is too lazy or ignorant to bother adding prompts).

Here is the real reason why I don't like this idea. If the interface allows you to set caps, players will think that they have to use it. They will think that overtraining a skill to 8.3 is a big strategic mistake and that they should have set a cap to block it at 8 before killing this unique. That's why I think such a minor feature should be implemented in lua (or with more prompts) and not be part of the game interface. If it's there, players will think that it's important, but it's not.

Back to the topic, I changed the interface to use shift+letter instead of ctrl+letter.

ctrl+letter doesn't work for several letters in console and in webtiles.
If more than 26 skills can be trained, the 27th+ are mapped to numbers
(and they cannot be single-selected with shift number).

galehar wrote:If the interface allows you to set caps, players will think that they have to use it. They will think that overtraining a skill to 8.3 is a big strategic mistake and that they should have set a cap to block it at 8 before killing this unique.

Thanks for clarifying. That makes sense: even if skill caps could reduce tedious micromanagement for some players, they might promote tedious micromanagement for many others.

The Tavern

Replace skill_focus option by skill_allocate

Replace skill_focus option by skill_allocate

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Re: Replace skill_focus option by skill_allocate

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Re: Replace skill_focus option by skill_allocate

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Re: Replace skill_focus option by skill_allocate