The Tavern

XuaXua wrote:My suggestion would be, under Nemelex, to have Evocations skill work 100% like Invocations Skill;

Why limit it to Nemelex? I support the idea of evocations giving MP, but I see no reason to tie it to Nemelex. Troglodytes need it even more since they can't train neither spellcasting nor invocations.

mattlistener wrote:The guidance at http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?t ... elex_guide is so strongly against using decks of destruction I've never used them on a character I was trying to win with.

This advice is outdated. Decks of destructions have been buffed a lot since it was written (thanks MarvinPA!).

mumra wrote:
mattlistener wrote:The guidance at http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?t ... elex_guide is so strongly against using decks of destruction I've never used them on a character I was trying to win with.

My vote is that the entire BadWiki should just be deleted and replaced

No one is stopping either of you from updating the wiki article.

XuaXua wrote:
mumra wrote:
mattlistener wrote:The guidance at http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?t ... elex_guide is so strongly against using decks of destruction I've never used them on a character I was trying to win with.

My vote is that the entire BadWiki should just be deleted and replaced

No one is stopping either of you from updating the wiki article.

No, but neither is anyone forcing me to, and I don't know enough about Nemelex play to do so accurately even if I tried

My point is that the BadWiki is notoriously out of date in general, and a regular source of misinformation. Considering the size of work required to make it useful, maybe it's better to delete it when we have forums, IRC, LearnDB and the DevWiki for proper information?

That's a good point - the speed of a small wiki is vastly slower than the speed of Crawl development, so the Crawl wiki will always be far behind the curve.

crate wrote:Decks of destruction at power 0 are actually far less self-harmful than any other deck at power 0 (the worst you can do is poison yourself, unless you draw flame and fireball yourself but that one is avoidable). Only at power 2 is there really much chance of you seriously hurting yourself, and then only one card (pain card torment) will do so unless you target poorly.

Doesn't the Deck of Destruction contain cards named Torment (hurts you at any power unless torment-immune) as well as Pain (Mass Drain at power 2 hurts you unless rN+++)?

To be clear: I'm not carrying on an argument that Destruction decks shouldn't be used, I'm just seeking clarification on the above in hopes of updating the nemelex guide with better guidance.

(To Xua Xua: I routinely update the wiki with any information I'm confident of.)

There is no "torment" card. The mass-drain effect from the pain card is gone since a few versions ago, replaced with torment symbol.

crate wrote:There is no "torment" card. The mass-drain effect from the pain card is gone since a few versions ago, replaced with torment symbol.

Thanks -- updated wiki accordingly.

There is in fact still a Torment card, it's just not in decks of destruction any more (it's in the deck of punishment though).

MarvinPA wrote:There is in fact still a Torment card, it's just not in decks of destruction any more (it's in the deck of punishment though).

Thanks -- I assume it casts Symbol of Torment, affecting everything in LOS? Or is it just Torment damage on the player?

Still regular LOS torment, yeah (someone suggested having it cast holy word instead if you're undead seeing as it's a punishment-only card now, although it'd need some retheming for that).

Henzell's learndb entries for "deck of destruction" and "deck of punishment" need updating based on statements in this thread. If it would be better to say so elsewhere I would be happy to if directed.

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