Feedback on Trunk deployment (.11)

[mumra]

I still dislike how one of the main difficulties of elf is getting banished though. I had my current guy get banished while wearing 3 MR items tonight . Usually it means I wait until level 20+ when I have a reliable abyss kit to do elf, and by that point it is really a trivial and unfun branch to complete. I much prefer doing elf around level 15 when the elves themselves are an actual challenge but it is extremely rare since i`ve lost most of my guys who got abyssed around those levels.

Hopefully this situation will be improved a bit with the new Abyss difficulty scaling. Personally I've been banished only very rarely from Elf, although I usually have very high MR when I do it. With 3 MR items I guess you were unlucky (or maybe I've just been very lucky!), although how resistant did your character screen actually say you were at that point?

[Baldu]

I still dislike how one of the main difficulties of elf is getting banished though. I had my current guy get banished while wearing 3 MR items tonight . Usually it means I wait until level 20+ when I have a reliable abyss kit to do elf, and by that point it is really a trivial and unfun branch to complete. I much prefer doing elf around level 15 when the elves themselves are an actual challenge but it is extremely rare since i`ve lost most of my guys who got abyssed around those levels.

Hopefully this situation will be improved a bit with the new Abyss difficulty scaling. Personally I've been banished only very rarely from Elf, although I usually have very high MR when I do it. With 3 MR items I guess you were unlucky (or maybe I've just been very lucky!), although how resistant did your character screen actually say you were at that point?

Oh it was giant bad luck that`s for sure, I think i was at extremely MR, but I try to do elf in all my games and I`d say I get banished over 1/4 of the time. I guess the mid game would be significantly easier if elf could be looted consistently at lv12-15, but if I should be doing it around level 20 then the elves could be tougher because it's unchallenging and boring at that level right now.

Anyway, I'm quite curious about that abyss scaling thing, I'll try to be on the lookout for more info about that.

[hxy]

Has the placement algo for uniques changed in 0.11 ?
I just switched from 0.10 recently, and this is what I got in my current game (just gathering all the "Noticed" messages):

  Code:

  1154 | D:2      | Noticed Terence
  3475 | D:3      | Noticed Grinder
 10625 | D:9      | Noticed Joseph
 18878 | Orc:2    | Noticed Josephine
 19607 | Orc:4    | Noticed Psyche
 19618 | Orc:4    | Noticed Erolcha
 20983 | Orc:4    | Noticed Harold
 29730 | D:19     | Noticed Snorg
 33638 | Swamp:1  | Noticed Urug
 33726 | Swamp:2  | Noticed Frances
 33782 | Swamp:2  | Noticed Roxanne
 33903 | Swamp:1  | Noticed Kirke
 34134 | Swamp:1  | Noticed Agnes
 34539 | Swamp:2  | Noticed Aizul
 34766 | Swamp:2  | Noticed Nikola
 34777 | Swamp:2  | Noticed Rupert
 35856 | Swamp:3  | Noticed Louise
 36412 | Swamp:3  | Noticed Nergalle
 36638 | Swamp:4  | Noticed Saint Roka
 40763 | Snake:1  | Noticed Maud
 40900 | Snake:1  | Noticed Nessos
 43972 | Snake:5  | Noticed Xtahua
 43972 | Snake:5  | Noticed Frederick
 44155 | Snake:5  | Noticed Boris


I cleared all the way to D19, and the few levels in Swamp and Snake each have more uniques than D
Or is it just my luck this particular game?

[KoboldLord]

Clustering illusion, I'm betting. Given a band of levels and an equal number of uniques, it is actually more likely that you get a cluster of uniques in one level than you are to get them all exactly evenly distributed. I've seen tea parties exactly like that from time to time since I first started playing.

[XuaXua]

Has the placement algo for uniques changed in 0.11 ?

I asked about this with trunk 11 months ago and was assured it's clustering illusion too, but I know since 0.11 to always expect 2 or more uniques if I find one, and I've not been wrong.

So.... sure, it's a clustering illusion.

[KoboldLord]

Has the placement algo for uniques changed in 0.11 ?

I asked about this with trunk 11 months ago and was assured it's clustering illusion too, but I know since 0.11 to always expect 2 or more uniques if I find one, and I've not been wrong.

So.... sure, it's a clustering illusion.

If you dig deeper in the forum, you'll see another guy asking the same question 11 months earlier than that, and another guy 11 months even earlier than that, and so on as long as we have records from the gathering places for Crawl players.

[Grimm]

Topically, here are the spreadsheets listing uniques by depth, for checking your illusions against: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2382&

[XuaXua]

Has the placement algo for uniques changed in 0.11 ?

I asked about this with trunk 11 months ago and was assured it's clustering illusion too, but I know since 0.11 to always expect 2 or more uniques if I find one, and I've not been wrong.

So.... sure, it's a clustering illusion.

If you dig deeper in the forum, you'll see another guy asking the same question 11 months earlier than that, and another guy 11 months even earlier than that, and so on as long as we have records from the gathering places for Crawl players.

Forum hasn't been around that long.

[KoboldLord]

Forum hasn't been around that long.

Something Awful has had Crawl threads in their archive that go way back to 0.3, and I've read all of them since 0.6 even though I can't access all of them any more. Players have complained about unique clusters in every one that I've seen. It's also a pretty common topic of discussion in Let's Plays.

Occasionally there is an unexpected bug that causes the odd spawning behavior, the most recent example being the rod generation bug. Usually, however, the strange-looking spawns are random chance, because variance is really high in this game and there are a lot of players gathering data points.

[palin]

Maybe I'm too late but I rolled a DDAr and followed Nemelex. I feel like with the summoning decks nerf, I'm no longer powerful enough (I'm in L4 now, fleeing from Elephants), I'm not in danger since I have plenty of decks of escape, but having to rely on wands since I finished quickly decks of destruction and having seen only a legendary deck of summoning is... a different game I was used to.

[crate]

Nemelex gives fewer decks of summoning in 0.11 than in 0.10, probably this is what palin means.

(That said DD of Nemelex sounds pretty painful in any version to me)

[palin]

Nemelex gives fewer decks of summoning in 0.11 than in 0.10, probably this is what palin means.

(That said DD of Nemelex sounds pretty painful in any version to me)

So what path would you have followed with a DD Artificer? Trying to go caster would have proven impossibile (I found only a book with fuelsome distillation as the lower level spell), so I tried to go a shielded slinger with Nemelex support...

[Deimos]

a shielded slinger with makhleb support

[palin]

a shielded slinger with makhleb support

Yes, but not only it's the obvious choice for a DD, but it also means training Invocations when I start with a nice Evocation skill... This character worked like a charm in 0.10 (even if it depended on rod acquisition/dropping post Orc), but now you burn deck of destruction too much even if legendary in Lair... A single decent summon can spare you at least three destruction cards on average...

[Kate]

You don't have to put a single experience point into invocations for Makhleb to be worthwhile on a Deep Dwarf and also this has nothing to do with whatever the point of this thread is.

[JeffQyzt]

RE: ^ - actually, since this thread is to provide feedback on .11 trunk, and .11 is no longer trunk (and there's a corresponding .12 trunk thread) it should probably be locked...

[palin]

You don't have to put a single experience point into invocations for Makhleb to be worthwhile on a Deep Dwarf and also this has nothing to do with whatever the point of this thread is.

I know. My point in my original post was that I feel that the summoning deck nerf was a total Nemelex nerf. As it has been already pointed out, 0.11 is no longer trunk so everything is offtopic I agree.

[njvack]

I actually kinda hate the 0.X "grab bag" threads in general. If you have comments on a specific aspect of game design, make a thread. They're free.

Anyhow, I'll go ahead and lock this one, as 0.11 is stable-ish now.