Feedback on Trunk deployment (.11)

[evilmike]

I was under the false impression that that was not the case. So why the change in tiles?

As I noted, I think it's unintentional, but not widely noticed because it's occasional and I believe many primary developers don't play Tiles mode.

Post bug reports on mantis, not in this thread. If you are unsure if something is a bug, post a bug report anyway. If there is already a bug report with the issue you are describing, leave a comment on it like "I am also getting this bug". Since this is a tiles bug, consider uploading a screenshot too.

Did unseen horrors get immunity to wands of polymorph? I just zapped one a half dozen times and "Nothing seems to happen."

No.

[Grimm]

[nicolae]

If you have nausea, you can still eat for half nutrition (I think) at near starving or worse.

[Grimm]

Nausea used to end at Starving, I thought.

[rchandra]

I'm 90% sure I had starving + nausea in 0.10 yesterday.

[galehar]

Nausea used to end at Starving, I thought.

I don't remember it ever did that. However, as nicolae said, you can eat for half nutrition when nauseated and starving or near starving.

[jejorda2]

But you get sick when you eat while nauseated.

[Deimos]

Some feedback on the Okawaru changes:

Its pretty tough right now. Definitely a little nerf, although it may be fine. Oka was a little strong. I ended getting ***** in Lair:2 or 3, so it didn't hold me back in the beginning too bad. Heroism wasn't available as early as it used to be though. Orc, however, was a pain in the ass, getting me down to ** piety. Its the first time I had to ration Heroism, and in Orc of all places, since all the orcs barely gave any piety. I managed to jump back up to ***** pretty soon after Orc though, so thats fine.

Also, does "blue = curse or ego" apply to store items? If so, maybe prices need to be adjusted considering there is less of a chance of throwing out 500g on a useless +1 item.

Lastly, the new tiles are gorgeous.

[galehar]

But you get sick when you eat while nauseated.

More precisely, you have a chance to get sick when eating contaminated chunks while nauseated. Anyway, are you trying to make a point? Nausea isn't even a 0.11 addition so there's no reason to spam this thread saying nothing about it.

[kefir645]

Okawaru changes seem like a pretty big nerf. Spammable Hero is probably the only thing that made it even comparable to Trog in the early / mid game and made him so good for UC. So, it's probably more of a no-brainer to go Trog now if you don't plan to cast.

Spider is still pretty annoying. It's like a worse Swamp. Looking forward to Hellspider and more variety. Hope it's going to be guaranteed, because after clearing Swamp numerous times I haven't met Lernaean hydra once outside of wizard mode...

Detect curse scrolls are gone. I don't remember ever using them other then read-id-ing in the early game, so I like this change. The same with amulet of controlled flight.

"Blue = ego or curse" is nice as well.

Tiles are getting prettier and prettier.

I think, I'll stick to 0.10 for the time being.

[XuaXua]

Post bug reports on mantis, not in this thread. If you are unsure if something is a bug, post a bug report anyway.

Tell that to galehar (example).

[evilmike]

Post bug reports on mantis, not in this thread. If you are unsure if something is a bug, post a bug report anyway.

Tell that to galehar (example).

Yes, that was a lapse of judgment on my part. I said that because I want people to post bug reports. I should have been more careful who I was saying it to.

[qululu123]

Hi! Been playing the most recent tiles build version for a few days and i really like it! Just some small things though: would it be possible to lower the number of webs in spider a little? I know it's part of the gimmick for that place but there's soooooooo many, i'd go as far as saying there are too many.

Also, has summon earth elemental been changed? It used to only require 5 earth to reliably summon and it's still what the bots are saying but im summoning an awful lot of hostile earth elementals this game, i suspect there's a change there.

edit: thanks for the quick answer blacksheep, much appreciated!

[BlackSheep]

Yes, earth elementals were increased to 10, and water elementals decreased to 10.

[Deimos]

Feedback on Spider: its fucking hard. Too much web spam too, although I think I'm only complaining because Spider:5 has been the only lair branch that has splatted me with regularity in a long time.

[eeviac]

Spider is annoying enough that I hold off until I need a 3rd rune and after elf and d27, so I can just steamroll it.

[Grimm]

I don't like the new bread tile. It looks like Wonder Bread. The old tile looked like medieval bread.

[Deimos]

My problem with the new bread tile is that only the bright slice at the end shows up well; its dark and brown color hardly contrasts with the all-too-common dungeon floor tile.

[sardonica]

For what its worth, Spider is super duper hard and annoying

[galehar]

For what its worth, Spider is super duper hard and annoying

This comment (and the few similar ones above) isn't worth anything. Back it up with some arguments if you want it to be considered.

Too much web spam too

A bug was fixed, and the formula adjusted.

[snow]

I know it's not very constructive but I personally really like spider. It's very hard but... I think the game should be hard! Meph cloud makes it a lot easier but then again meph cloud makes everything easier. I don't like how monsters pick up jewelry but it's not THAT big of a deal and having elf 4 floors deep feels right.

[sardonica]

For what its worth, Spider is super duper hard and annoying

This comment (and the few similar ones above) isn't worth anything. Back it up with some arguments if you want it to be considered.

Too much web spam too

A bug was fixed, and the formula adjusted.

Hard means "difficult"

"Difficult" means "it's really easy to go 'splat'"

Reasons for this include "monsters that are really hard to kill" and "fucking webs"

Next time, I'll run my comments by you first so you can see if they're worthwhile.

[XuaXua]

For what its worth, Spider is super duper hard and annoying

This comment (and the few similar ones above) isn't worth anything. Back it up with some arguments if you want it to be considered.

Too much web spam too

A bug was fixed, and the formula adjusted.

Hard means "difficult"

"Difficult" means "it's really easy to go 'splat'"

Reasons for this include "monsters that are really hard to kill" and "fucking webs"

Next time, I'll run my comments by you first so you can see if they're worthwhile.

You didn't qualify why it's "super-duper hard and annoying". And someone who is a person who can fix the "super-duper hard and annoying" parts wanted you to clarify it because you were way too general in your assessment.

What is "super-duper hard and annoying" to you might be "simple and ignorable" to others who either have methods to bypass those sections or find those parts appropriately difficult and enjoyable. They need someone like you to be specific so they can see what they're missing or help you through your concerns.

[njvack]

Hard means "difficult"

"Difficult" means "it's really easy to go 'splat'"

Reasons for this include "monsters that are really hard to kill" and "fucking webs"

Is it all the monsters, or just some? Are you going in as a MiBe, a DECj, or a SpVM? Is it harder for your characters than Swamp, or Snake, or Elf, or Zot?

Next time, I'll run my comments by you first so you can see if they're worthwhile.

Sorry dude, but if you want people to take action based on your comments, they need to be more specific.

[Deimos]

Spider is difficult because of many reasons. This is coming from someone who frequents it in mostly Minotaurs with the appropriate hacky killy melee playstyle:

1. There are multitudes more creatures in Spider then any other branch. This makes it very easy to get surrounded.
2. It's a death sentence without rPois, Cure Poison, or silly amounts of Curing pots unless you go in extremely overleveled.
3. Moths of Wrath and Ghost Moths are scary, especially when the former is blocked by crowds of spiders.
4. Orb Spiders are very common and deal a great deal of damage.
5. Lots of webs.
6. No hallways to funnel spiders into for safety; chances are you will always will be having multiple on you at once.
7. Almost everything can outrun you.

Spider is currently the hardest of the lair branches (bar Slime), at least for the chars I run. I can't say whether this is bad or fine.

I think the "annoying" part of Spider that sardonica is alluding to are the hundreds of extremely quick and high-hp monsters you are having to deal with per floor. Everything that feels like running from you will probably get away, but this is something you become accustomed to as a melee char. Doesn't make a branch full of hundreds of them any less annoying though.

[dd]

I don't like the new bread tile. It looks like Wonder Bread. The old tile looked like medieval bread.

My problem with the new bread tile is that only the bright slice at the end shows up well; its dark and brown color hardly contrasts with the all-too-common dungeon floor tile.

I tried to improve it a bit...

[roctavian]

I preferred that puffed/muffin-like shape to the bread, there's nothing anachronistic about it. Bread puffs up over the edge if you bake it in a pan, and I think it gives the tile a distinct shape. It did need to be lightened, though.

[Grimm]

I preferred that puffed/muffin-like shape to the bread, there's nothing anachronistic about it. Bread puffs up over the edge if you bake it in a pan

They didn't use to bake bread in pans. It is anachronistic (given my assumption about when Crawl is taking place).

[roctavian]

This is typically where the pizza argument comes up, but knowing how many people hate the presence of pizza in the game, I don't think it's useful. Oh well.

[dd]

I think the anachronistic argument isn't very useful either though... Crawl obviously isn't taking place in our world, since our world never had magic, orcs, or sentient cats. It takes place in a fantasy world so who's to say food technology didn't develop differently in it... maybe the dwarves invented pizza back in caveman times.

I think it's much more useful to look at it from the perspective of invoking a certain mood/atmosphere... to me pizza isn't that big of a deal as it's much more rare than bread rations, it's almost like an easter egg or a joke, like "hey look at this there's a pizza in this dungeon, ha ha"... whereas bread rations are ubiquitous in every game, so their appearance should more closely reflect the intended mood of the game.

[qululu123]

This was with a version downloaded about 2 weeks ago, but in that version mystic blast got a longer range for less damage. I really like this since it seems to have kept it's accuracy however... it now has a chance to explode. I found that to be problematic both for the damage to myself and the damage to my allies. Overall, from my limited time with it, i would love it if it lost the explosion, but as it is i probably wouldnt use it unless i cant find any competitive spell. In fact, both characters i have played to max level with that version of trunk used it since the new range makes it so useful, but had to forget it rather quickly since the explosion was more trouble than it was worth.

edit: i guess more explanations would be a good idea so basically, i found the problem to be the unpredictability of the explosion and the fact that i generally would have preferred the explosion to happen at max range rather than short range. But really, the unpredictable part made it unlikely for me to use it again since there's so many cases i would want to use my level 4 spell but would rather not risk the explosion.

edit2: the new drawings, they are so pretty!! slows me down a bunch since i cant tell yet from the drawings which equip is enchanted or not but soooo pretty!!

[crate]

The imb explosion will never hurt you. I don't know if it will hurt allies.

[qululu123]

Hummm, call me dumb then, i was pretty sure it had hurt me and my dudes, but i may well be mistaken. Guess i need to pay more attention!

On another matter, would it be possible to slightly lower the noise from lightning bolt and slightly increase the damage on magma bolt? They are both quite ok but level 5 fireball really overshadows them, and i think just a small adjustment on numbers would bring them up to par. Also, level 6 poison cloud feels really weak compared to level 6 ice cloud but i have no suggestion here since level 5 poison cloud was just so overpowered.

[qululu123]

So i did verify and i was partly right, mystic blast explosion does hurt allies. I didnt check if it bothers gods who dont like that since i wasnt with the right one though.

[XuaXua]

One of the latest trunks blows away configuration files, including the one for tiles dialog.
All parameters were commented out, but were listed so they could be available to be set if needed.

I used to set the width and height of the floating window. Now I no longer have this file.

What is the replacement, or was this an oversight when blowing away the file?

[galehar]

there is a tiles section in init.txt now

[dd]

I just had a crash when I was fighting a phantom.

Unfortunately I didn't run crawl from terminal so I didn't see any error messages or anything... is there a dump file or something that I could upload?

[Galefury]

There should be a crash report in your morgue folder.

[dd]

Yes, I just found them - had another crash and this time ran in terminal.

Should I post the crash dumps here or on mantis? Or both? I've attached them in this post but I can also post them on mantis if needed. I'm not sure what the convention is here...

[galehar]

Bug and crash reports got to mantis, but in this case, it's not necessary. This bug has already been fixed, just updated your version.

[dd]

Ok, good to know.

[dd]

Some floor tiles seem to be randomly changing to wrong tiles... I've seen it happen a couple of times now.

[nicolae]

Some floor tiles seem to be randomly changing to wrong tiles... I've seen it happen a couple of times now.

I had a similar problem a while back, some floor tiles randomly turned into a closed Sewer drain on the level with the sewer. I didn't report it because I figured it was part of one of the other myriad tile glitches already reported at the time, but it appears I was wrong.

[XuaXua]

Maybe it is the luck of the draw, but I have only been seeing the same Hall of Blades (the long hallway with pillars) for quite some time. Has anyone else seen the one with all the rooms and passageways, or was that done-away with?

[BlackSheep]

The Hall changed last year to an encompass vault, which I guess means that the map definition becomes the entire level instead of being attached to a generated level?

[XuaXua]

SPOILERS

Pearl Dragons are no longer extinct?

[Jabberwocky]

Pearl dragons have been around for a version or two.

[XuaXua]

Pearl dragons have been around for a version or two.

Damn that inaccurate crawl wiki.

[Jabberwocky]

Damn that inaccurate crawl wiki.

The motto of this story is probably that the crawl wiki is fucked up and you shouldn't trust it.

[edlothiol]

Some floor tiles seem to be randomly changing to wrong tiles... I've seen it happen a couple of times now.

Please report this on the tracker, if you haven't yet. (I don't remember seeing this reported.) Does it persist (or reliably reappear) when you save and load? If so, please attach the save game.