Feedback on Trunk deployment (.11)

[dd]

Some floor tiles seem to be randomly changing to wrong tiles... I've seen it happen a couple of times now.

Please report this on the tracker, if you haven't yet. (I don't remember seeing this reported.) Does it persist (or reliably reappear) when you save and load? If so, please attach the save game.

done https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5835

[CommanderC]

I have just played the new Swamp, and it is awesome. Thanks a lot, evilmike!

The new layout is very good because it offers a good mix of open areas and a few choke points, and fleeing creatures are now less annoying. Also, bog bodies seem to be a little more powerful than bog mummies (and that's good). The removal of death curses is great. I think bog bodies should be even more powerful and be generated only in the last levels of the Swamp.

[BlackSheep]

Oooh, no more death curses? That's terrific, I missed that part of the change.

[danharaj]

First impression of new swamp layout: It's amazing. It feels good to explore and it isn't an eyesore. The terrain is different from most other branches, too, which is good. I played a merfolk so I can't say how well the water works out though. I hope to play it some more soon.

[evilmike]

I think bog bodies should be even more powerful and be generated only in the last levels of the Swamp.

I think these are better as normal enemies. What I like about them is that (a) they have a ranged attack, and (b) this attack isn't completely negated by resistances (unlike swamp drakes and swamp dragons). Also, bolt of cold sometimes leaves freezing clouds over water (although the duration is _extremely_ short with bog bodies), which I think is an interesting terrain effect. It's certainly better than throw frost was.

As for the power... they currently cast bolt of cold at the same power as deep elf conjurers (HD 6) if you want a comparison. This isn't a huge amount of damage, but it isn't small either. They also cast it more often than bog mummies cast throw frost, and are slightly faster.

[Thurman]

Contradicting wording in different mutations...

In Mutation-data.h the following can be found...

  Code:

{ MUT_STRONG_STIFF,              10,  3, false,  true, false,
  NULL,

  {"Your muscles are strong, but stiff (Str +1, Dex -1).",
   "Your muscles are very strong, but stiff (Str +2, Dex -2).",
   "Your muscles are extremely strong, but stiff (Str +3, Dex -3)."},

  {"Your muscles feel sore.",
   "Your muscles feel sore.",
   "Your muscles feel sore."},

  {"Your muscles feel loose.",
   "Your muscles feel loose.",
   "Your muscles feel loose."},

  "strong stiff"
},

{ MUT_FLEXIBLE_WEAK,             10,  3, false,  true, false,
  NULL,

  {"Your muscles are flexible, but weak (Str -1, Dex +1).",
   "Your muscles are very flexible, but weak (Str -2, Dex +2).",
   "Your muscles are extremely flexible, but weak (Str -3, Dex +3)."},

  {"Your muscles feel loose.",
   "Your muscles feel loose.",
   "Your muscles feel loose."},

  {"Your muscles feel sore.",
   "Your muscles feel sore.",
   "Your muscles feel sore."},

  "flexible weak"


I bring this up because I use sounds to alert me when I have undergone a positive or negative mutation. These contradict each other, and even without sound you can't tell which of the two just happened without looking at the Mutation list.

Regards,
Thurman
0.11-a0-2499-g124bde TILES Windows

[galehar]

What's the contradiction? Losing a level of one or gaining a level of the opposite one are the same things. Whatever your current mutation, "Your muscles feel loose" means str -1, dex +1 and "Your muscles feel sore" means str +1, dex -1. Seems quite consistent to me.

[Thurman]

What's the contradiction? Losing a level of one or gaining a level of the opposite one are the same things. Whatever your current mutation, "Your muscles feel loose" means str -1, dex +1 and "Your muscles feel sore" means str +1, dex -1. Seems quite consistent to me.

I geez...See that's why I shouldn't look a code before coffee... I get it now.

Str +1 Dex -1 is the undo of Dex +1 Str -1, I feel a we bit small now.

[Thurman]

Is it just me, or has the turn changed? I was fooling around last night and it seemed to be a timing issue for when things happened. For example, I would kill, but the tiles didn't indicate that kill until I enter the next command. I would drink a potion, and didn't get a responce of the effects until I entered the next command.

Grant this was just one play and it could have been me, but I was high in level and it got rediculous when I got hit with a wave of monsters.

Regards,
Thurman
0.11-a0-2499-g124bde TILES Windows

[galehar]

Is it just me, or has the turn changed?

show_game_turns is now default, but what you describe sounds more like a bug. Can you be a bit more specific about what happens? The turn count isn't updated after some actions? Are more prompts involved?

[Thurman]

Is it just me, or has the turn changed?

show_game_turns is now default, but what you describe sounds more like a bug. Can you be a bit more specific about what happens? The turn count isn't updated after some actions? Are more prompts involved?

I really need to be more familiar with the normal workings of the game, alot of my comments could be just my lack of those understanding. I am going to have to track this irt and get back with you on this.

Regards,
Thurman

[XuaXua]

I think bog bodies should be even more powerful and be generated only in the last levels of the Swamp.

I think these are better as normal enemies.

They show up in that swampy Ossuary? If so, are they toned down from the scary type of monster they sound like?

[evilmike]

I think bog bodies should be even more powerful and be generated only in the last levels of the Swamp.

I think these are better as normal enemies.

They show up in that swampy Ossuary? If so, are they toned down from the scary type of monster they sound like?

They have weaker spells and lower HD in that Ossuary (along with a custom name). Similar to how that one sewer has a "sickly siren" in it.

[Blade]

I played NewSwamp just barely (ended up dying in it) and I just wanted to mention that the changes are excellent. Traveling through the Swamp that game was some of the most fun I've ever had in Crawl (a large part of that was due to my character [FeVM*Kiku], since every single monster was a legitimate, manageable threat); the new mix of terrain really adds a lot, and most of the monsters have become interesting and often dangerous without being overly annoying. I'll have to play through it again to see what it feels like when I don't have 50 hp, but for now, Swamp went from being one of my least favorite branches to being my favorite. Whoever fixed it up did an excellent job.

[eeviac]

Monsters picking up nearly every item in v8/elf$/tomb/whatever and scattering them about is really frustrating, particularly when you really need a certain piece of jewelry. Is marking these places no_pickup still in the cards for .11? Please say yes.

[evilmike]

every single monster was a legitimate, manageable threat)

I have a hunch this is because your character had 50 max hp and no extra lives. Still, this feedback is nice to hear.

[Blade]

every single monster was a legitimate, manageable threat)

I have a hunch this is because your character had 50 max hp and no extra lives. Still, this feedback is nice to hear.

Yeah, that was definitely the reason; it was a circumstance that probably won't arrive again, but it was fun while it was happening.

On another note, I recently got the decaying rune with a MuFE^Veh; I was very powerful and didn't run into much trouble, but it was a fun branch; the monster set is varied, interesting, and much less annoying than before.

[retch]

the new weapon tiles are very cool looking, but awful from a design perspective. the most emphasized detail is now species (dwarven, orcish, &c.), which is the least significant factor in terms of gameplay. dwarven hand axe and dwarven war axe are almost indistinguishable; this sucks.

likewise, some of the creatures are more detailed and now even harder to distinguish from background. again, looks cool, less playable. although drastic, maybe it'd be nice to have an option to put a bright outline around monsters.

also, there's no delicate way to say this, but although the dwarven mace looks cool, it also resembles a "marital aid." :-/

[pubby]

I found spider to be very easy with enslavement. The first 4 floors were practically trivial, and could probably be done without rPois. The only difficulty was the final vault because of ghost moths.

[XuaXua]

there's no delicate way to say this, but although the dwarven mace looks cool, it also resembles a "marital aid." :-/

What, like a rolling pin?

[Igxfl]

I think I might have found a minor bug with Okawaru piety gain.
I'm killing monsters with a randart hammer {drain, rElec, rPois, rC++} and often don't get the "Okawaru accepts your kill." message. At first I thought this might be related to the draining effect but it seems to happen equally often whether or not the "You drain the foo" message actually shows up. When the same character kills with a sling I always get the kill acceptance message. I'm not used to playing Okawaru so I'm not convinced there isn't something else at work. Is there some obscure piety technicality at work here, or is it a legitimate bug?

Edit: It seems like the piety gain might be relted to monster strength. I was only using the hammer on trivial monsters so I didn't notice it properly.

[graffen69]

Been playing the latest 0.11 builds as often as I can and also noticed a tone down on the amount of early unique´s from 0.10, which I think is really good for us crappy players since 0.10 was extremely hard in that regard (again for me as a really crappy player which is why I avoid 0.10).

Was killed by Mennas 4 games in a row, prolly just bad luck.
As stated elsewhere, I also wait with Spider branch until right before Vault 8 or Zot 1 but I still never managed to get the Spidy rune. Even with high AC and rP+ I need to have a staircase near and lots of Heal W./Curing.
Spider 5 scares the hell out of me and lately i´ve been considering doing Slime/Hell/Pand (which I’m all a virgin to) or any other branch just to avoid Spider. Come to think of it Mennas showed up in Spider, 2 out of those 4 times. Is he somehow linked to Spider now (from random boss list)?

Also in 0.11 noticed I tend to find a LOT of the same type of “random” branded stuff, like this game I’ve found 5 Rings of rC+ at L14 already - the other day I’ve found 6 Fan´s before L17 and in another game 5 Weapons of protection at the time is was L11. Feedback?

Still waiting for Shoals water tiles to not kill my eyes.

Keep up the good work!

//PS I tend to favor melees but at times I play casters/hybrids
(Pizza and Killer Klowns for everyone)

[galehar]

Been playing the latest 0.11 builds as often as I can and also noticed a tone down on the amount of early unique´s from 0.10, which I think is really good for us crappy players since 0.10 was extremely hard in that regard (again for me as a really crappy player which is why I avoid 0.10).

Unique generation haven't been changed at all.

Come to think of it Mennas showed up in Spider, 2 out of those 4 times. Is he somehow linked to Spider now (from random boss list)?

No.

Also in 0.11 noticed I tend to find a LOT of the same type of “random” branded stuff, like this game I’ve found 5 Rings of rC+ at L14 already - the other day I’ve found 6 Fan´s before L17 and in another game 5 Weapons of protection at the time is was L11. Feedback?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clustering_illusion

[Deimos]

Spider and Swamp are a lot better. I splatted in Vaults, but I got to clear these two branches and get their runes beforehand; I like the new web amounts. Much more manageable. Swamp might be a bit too easy, but it was much more fun then beforehand.

[graffen69]

Unique generation haven't been changed at all.

Hey that means I´m getting better .. or, uuhm prolly just more lucky.

//”The Ettin shouts in Stereo” Huh? What’s next? “The 8 headed Hydra roars in Surround”?

[rosstin]

I mentioned this in the voting thread, but I'm curious about the status of the suggestion to merge Centaur and Naga barding into plain barding. Is that still on the table?

https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php? ... al_barding

[BlackSheep]

I don't see any open issue for it in mantis, and haven't seen it discussed on here recently.

[galehar]

Is that still on the table?

Was it ever? I personally don't see any benefit from it, and it doesn't make much sense. Also, I guess most people don't care.

[KoboldLord]

Was it ever? I personally don't see any benefit from it, and it doesn't make much sense. Also, I guess most people don't care.

If you want to talk sense, how does a snake wear barding in the first place? There's no gap between the floor and the bottom of the body for the straps to be secured, so friction is going to constantly cause the barding to slip towards the naga's tail. It'll also get in the way of the naga's belly muscles when it's trying to push itself forward.

If I was stretching my imagination, I suppose a naga could wear kind of a maille blanket that it drapes over its tail, but it would have to strap to the torso like a cloak with extra-long straps. At this point, it would be something that a centaur could wear just as easily, and I don't know how you'd stabilize it so it wouldn't slip off-balance during combat or travel.

[nicolae]

If you want to talk sense, how does a snake wear barding in the first place?

Double-sided tape, like actresses use when they wear a low-cut dress on the red carpet and don't want to fall out.

[Grimm]

naga falsies

[dd]

suspenders

[Jabberwocky]

suspenders

that doesn't really make sense on a naga. the shoulders are so far away from the tail section.

[dd]

really long suspenders?

[Jabberwocky]

really long suspenders?

maybe disbelief suspenders

[Igxfl]

Did OOD monster generation get tweaked? I just ran into a D:8 draconian.

[evilmike]

Did OOD monster generation get tweaked? I just ran into a D:8 draconian.

Not really.

A "draconian" on D:8 isn't going to be that dangerous. Brown (or colourless) draconians are much weaker than coloured ones.

[XuaXua]

Initial gut suspicion says it's the steamed meat food vault that is surrounded by a various bunch of base races.

[CommanderC]

  Code:

 10883 | D:6      | Noticed Sigmund
 11141 | D:6      | Killed Sigmund
 11146 | D:6      | thanks dear kobold
 11880 | D:8      | Noticed a centaur warrior
 11881 | D:8      | fuck


[dd]

The latest trunk version (as of this moment) gives me an error when trying to compile:

make: *** No rule to make target `mon_resist_def.h', needed by `abl-show.o'. Stop.

I haven't had this problem on earlier versions... is there something I'm missing?

[edlothiol]

Try "make clean". That file got removed.

[dd]

Oh, right. thanks

[Roderic]

In console the colour of the "aiming beam" for spells has changed from magenta to light magenta, hasn't it? Is it to differentiate between the aiming with projectiles and spellcasting? The magic dart effect has been lost, I think

[Igxfl]

I just found an Ashenzari altar vault that reveals which Lair branches will show up. "You have a vision of the Shoals and Snake Pit!"

[JeffQyzt]

I just found an Ashenzari altar vault that reveals which Lair branches will show up. "You have a vision of the Shoals and Snake Pit!"

I believe that's one of Grunt's vaults; it was only recently modified to be that explicit (previously it just showed representative critters/terrain, with a vague message about that being elsewhere in the dungeon.)

[Tiber]

I'm just curious. I saw a patch that introduced randart rods a while back on the tracker. Will this ever be actually introduced into the game?

[BlackSheep]

Given the lack of discussion on the issue (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5814) I would imagine it won't make it into 0.11. Sgrunt's been a wild man with the code updates, though, so I'm sure if it gets widespread attention and support he can get it added relatively quickly.

[tazoz]

There is a problem with the new beam mechanics in tiles when using Fireball, the explosion radius is a darker color than the beam which makes the beam invisible, it makes the skill much more annoying to use compared to 1.10.