Priests

[Jeremiah]

It has always bugged me a bit that there are essentially two backgrounds called "Priest" and because of this it is not possible to play a hill orc of Zin. (It bugged me even more when you could also get Priests of Yred, though in some ways this was not as bad because at least they got the same starting skills, weapon etc as Priests of Zin, unlike the priest of Beogh.)

I have previously suggested renaming the priest of Beogh to "Zealot" but that was rejected seemingly on the grounds that you get orc priests as monsters so players should have the same name.

As an alternative, how about renaming the priest of Zin to "Preacher?" As well as fitting the religious theme, it also works quite well with the flavour of Zin, as the Recite ability is a bit like preaching.

I guess another alternative could be "Cleric" though the fact that this is/was used in D&D will probably be a mark against it.

[Kate]

Personally I'm not all that bothered that HOPr can't start out worshipping Zin, there's even some vague flavour justification for it (Mennas was a priest of Zin who tried to preach to the hill orcs and they cut out his tongue, so presumably Zin-worship isn't very popular in the orc homelands).

Splitting Priest into two separate backgrounds (with whatever names) would be an okay alternative but I feel like having a class that only one race can choose is less elegant than the status quo.

[XuaXua]

If the only difference is the diety, then I honestly don't see what is wrong with the current system. If there was a choice, like there used to be, then that's just another screen.

[Jeremiah]

Fair enough - I just find it a bit awkward that when comparing the popularity, win rate, etc of different backgrounds, when you get to priest you have to specify HOPr vs all the others. Also when playing in tournaments where the score is determined by how many times that background has already been won, the HOPr is competing in a skewed way against every other priest.

I also think it's a bit of a shame that (in 0.10) there are only 3 species with positive Invocations aptitude, and of these, two can't be priests of Zin and the third probably wouldn't want to. Yes I know aptitudes don't matter that much in the long term, but it is kind of fun to see your skills improving fast, especially in the early game.

[greepish]

I gotta agree with Jeremiah here, I think it'd be best to separate them just for information and everything sake. Chaos knights were split for what I'm guessing is the same reason?

[greepish]

Yeah me too Beogh shouldn't have been created, but there's no reason to really take it out as far as I can tell.

[One-Eyed Jack]

How about this - non Hill Orcs can worship Beogh. As you gain piety, he alters your aptitudes, hp/mp, and base stats to be more like a Hill Orc, until you end up as one at ******, but retaining equipment restrictions, species mutations, etc as your base character. This lets you transition into a more robust character in the mid-late game, plus it gets you followers/meatshields.

[ElectricAlbatross]

How about this - non Hill Orcs can worship Beogh. As you gain piety, he alters your aptitudes, hp/mp, and base stats to be more like a Hill Orc, until you end up as one at ******, but retaining equipment restrictions, species mutations, etc as your base character. This lets you transition into a more robust character in the mid-late game, plus it gets you followers/meatshields.

This is probably one of the more interesting Beogh suggestions I've heard around here. Sounds tricky to implement, though, and sounds like it would make the god inferior for Hill Orcs.

[greepish]

Not to mention having a 200 HP spriggan with speed3 sounds a bit over the top, or a hill orc that's undead to boot.

Maybe that idea's on the right track, but it's not quite there.

Edit: Or a hill orc with 9 lives

[ekolis]

How about this: When you choose hill orc priest, you get another menu which lets you choose between Zin and Beogh, in the same way that fighters get to choose their starting weapon.

[nicolae]

How about this: When you choose hill orc priest, you get another menu which lets you choose between Zin and Beogh, in the same way that fighters get to choose their starting weapon.

The devs are trying to cut down on choice screens at the beginning of the game, that's why they got rid of god selection for Priests in the first place.

Also I really like the idea of a single-species god.

[greepish]

The main gripe about a one species god is if it''s too powerful, than that species only plays that god, if it's not powerful, than countless hours of programming are wasted on something hardly anyone's going to use. Beogh sorta ended on the less powerful side, so it's not a problem so much as a mild disappointment. Somehow involving the other species would make beogh more interesting. Not really sure how orc armies can make any sense with species other than HO tho.

[galehar]

Beogh sorta ended on the less powerful side, so it's not a problem so much as a mild disappointment.

I don't think that's true, at least for 3 runes. The real problem with Beogh is the lack of inter-level travel and other inconvenience created by ally play. We need to improve the interface, not rebalance the god.

[njvack]

Beogh sorta ended on the less powerful side, so it's not a problem so much as a mild disappointment.

I don't think that's true, at least for 3 runes.

Other bonuses (which aren't trivial) aside, an airdroppable group of half a dozen heavily-armed Orc Warlords is definitely useful throughout three runes.

Keeping your disciples alive long enough to level up and managing experience so you're not overmatched when you need to leave them behind are tricky, but hey, that's the challenge.