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Make it based on tension and taking damage, both for triggering and for extending. That it should be an especially crippling mutation for melee fighters doesn't really make sense. This would decrease the instances of "falling unconscious one step from that ranged attacker" syndrome.

That it should be an especially crippling mutation for melee fighters doesn't really make sense.

Why?

Some bad mutations are especially dangerous for certain types of characters like, say, shoutitis is a deal breaker for stealth-based builds.

You can just use an amulet of stasis and take it off if you need to teleport. The mutation has been toned down quite a bit though so if it triggers at a bad time you can usually just play teleport roulette.

thenewflesh wrote:
That it should be an especially crippling mutation for melee fighters doesn't really make sense.

Why?

Some bad mutations are especially dangerous for certain types of characters like, say, shoutitis is a deal breaker for stealth-based builds.

I think the perceived problem is that berserkitis is especially crippling for melee fighters for a reason that makes no sense. Melee fighters are characters that focus on hitting things in melee, and going berserk forces you to hit things in melee. It would be reasonable to expect that being forced to do things a certain way would be less crippling for builds that already focus on doing things in that certain way, but this doesn't bear out in practice.

It is likewise counterintuitive that pure casters can flounce around with berserk 3 and no care in the world, absolutely safe from ever actually triggering it.

I remember losing a MDFi due to Beserkitis. I was fleeing from Khufu & his guardian mummies, but there was a minor monster blocking my escape path, I killed the monster, but it triggered beserkitis..

KoboldLord wrote:It is likewise counterintuitive that pure casters can flounce around with berserk 3 and no care in the world, absolutely safe from ever actually triggering it.

This. As far as I'm concerned, berseritis procures from hitting stuff, which I don't think makes sense.

I see it more like "anger management".

Say, you're walking somewhere and someone comes to you and punches you. Naturally, you will be pissed at them. That's the way berserkitis should work, I think. Or in more imaginative ways. Just think, what would make the character angry?

What if berserkitis was triggered by NOT melee fighting while experiencing tension? The idea is that you blow off steam by hitting things, and when you don't or can't, you eventually just can't stand it and go berserk. That should hurt the pure casters, while leaving the melee builds alone.

There would have to be a mechanism to prevent you from keeping a living punching bag, though.

Just think, what would make the character angry?

I dunno, finding artefact CPM for a Troll, maybe?

On a serious note, some changes proposed here seem to make berserkitis a death sentence for squishier characters. Notice dangerous mob, tension triggers berserk and since you can't melee your way out of the paper bag you run for it, pass out and get killed.

thenewflesh wrote:On a serious note, some changes proposed here seem to make berserkitis a death sentence for squishier characters. Notice dangerous mob, tension triggers berserk and since you can't melee your way out of the paper bag you run for it, pass out and get killed.

Bad mutations are bad. Teleportitis, slow movement, slow healing, and others are going to screw with you just as bad, especially if you've got them maxed out, and you can always mitigate berserkitis with stasis or clarity. Or just kill everything with your magic before berserk kicks in.

Here's an idea that might make it both less crippling for melee builds and more present for magic-users: Make berserk trigger upon taking damage, not giving it. Stage 1 could be, perhaps, 1/4 of your HP in a blow to trigger it, Stage 2 1/8, Stage 3 1/16 (or some other ratio). Not only would this be more flavourful (hitting things is a lot less rage-inducing than getting hurt), it would sidestep the "use magic, ignore berserkitis" condition that currently exists. Not only that, it would be somewhat avoidable by being careful or killing things very very quickly.

Maybe one thing that'd help with Berserkitis, regardless of what form it took, is if it had to "warm-up" before it kicked in. If you do something that triggers Berserkitis, you get a warning message, such as "You're starting to get angry" or "You feel your blood begin to boil" a few turns, 3-5 at most, before it kicks in, giving you a chance to do something about it.

Both ideas, berserk from damage input and "starting to get angry" warnings sound interesting to me. I, too, don't like how the mutation doesn't really matter for (pure) casters. The first idea would make it matter, but in a hopefully interesting way that would change the way you play.

The other would probably make the mutation a more manageable double-edged sword. You still have to suffer the berserking, but can try to position yourself or (more importantly) spend consumables to either escape, or (which might be the most interesting thing to come from the change) to take out as many enemies as you can so you will take the rest out with the berserking (or survive the post-berserk).

I have to admit I don't recall having played a melee-er with berserkitis, so I'm not sure how they currently are. I had it on a pure OPAE recently and I don't think it triggered once. But sounds like both changes would introduce more interesting choices.

--Eino

I support the "You are starting to get angry" idea. It cuts down on the randomness of the mutation. If berserkitis becomes tension-based or damage-based, you should be able to stop the berserk by reducing tension/healing in that time. Currently, playing a melee character with berserkitis is like having an extra ball-and-chain on the wrong end of your weapon; and every once in a while that ball will swing right into your groin.

evktalo wrote:I have to admit I don't recall having played a melee-er with berserkitis, so I'm not sure how they currently are.

I'd played with 'zerk 1 both before and after the frequency got reduced, and it changed from "berserking every couple of fights" to "berserking every couple of dungeon levels." Or more practically, from crippling to manageable on a melee char without clarity.

When did the berserkitis change happen? From my (recent) experience with berserkitis (in .9.1) it could activate once per level. But now it sometimes doesn't activate all game.

E: Must've happened between .9 and .10.

My recent(ly deceased) SpEn in 0.9.0. picked up Berserkitis 1 and it was sometimes taking awhile to trigger to going off every other fight. It's still extremely random and a huge liability. I didn't clear one floor with it before I ran back to my stash for my Cure Mutation potion (no source of Clarity or Stasis was available).

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