cerebovssquire wrote:
That's exactly what I meant too (well, I'd say berserkers and "other melee" could have physical ranged options... crossbows/slings/bows/throwing).
Are you really saying a pure mage is more flexible than a hybrid? It's in the name that a hybrid combines the two character types meaning more flexibility.
Where exactly did you get that I ("really" as you state) say that a pure mage is more flexible than a hybrid? I said that magic offers many empowering and escape options for melee that want to hybridize, but I didn't proceed to say whether hybrids are less flexible than pure casters, or not. Don't put words in my mouth...
...Which means, that I don't disagree with you saying hybrids are more versatile, obviously. Being able to handle some sticky situations related to silence mostly (namely, Mennas and the odd silent spectre in the Abyss or the endgame or even the possibility of any monster using an anti-magic weapon, If there's a chance) naturally is a good thing. And that's where hybridizing really shines. Although you can still relatively safely overpower Mennas and anything that can potentially lock you down through silence with high level summons, as a pure caster... Of course it requires some hindsight most of the times to not get into deadly situations which you can't escape, whereas as hybrid could probably come out even unscratched.
So now that this is out of the way, what I'm saying is that while hybrids can be much, much more flexible in almost all situations, in terms of raw power, pure mages are bound to be better but most importantly, get there much faster than the drop-reliant melee-ers who also might hope for a good gift by their god to get going (granted, Trog is going to give you some amazing damage dealing weapon at some point around Lair probably, and that's one of the very strong points of going for Trog)...
...Unless of course you're talking about the type of hybrids that mostly do their damage with heavy magic nukes and not melee, but still invest in a weapon skill for the slight chance they may need to stop frying stuff with their spells. It's just that when I say hybrids, I have the Skald and Transmuter backgrounds in my head, that use auxiliary magic to become more capable at killing things in a physical manner.
Not saying that a hybrid focused in magic damage is not a hybrid in its own right, I just prefer to view it the way that comes more natural to me, which is; physical character learning magic like haste/ozocubu's armour/statue form etc. to support their melee killing power.The option to use ranged weaponry is available for any kind of character, except (obviously) for pure casters, and pure melee. I should have mentioned it, since it seems to not be a given to you.
Also, (flying this by, just in case) training Fighting/Dodging/Armour/Shields as a pure mage isn't hybridizing to me, since you are merely getting better at surviving so that you can keep nuking your foes (without weapons or unarmed combat). But you could probably do without them, I assume, If you are going for a pure hardcore glass cannon caster situation.
Well, since -according to you- this subject goes beyond personal opinion, I'll just accept the fact that all role types are equal in power, and get this over with. Let us not derail the topic any further, this is about Berserkers and we ended up having a stupid argument about my personal thoughts on individual character power.
Anyway, the devs decide what's really OP and what's just pointless player whining, in the end and I'm sure you know that. Currently, in trunk, Merfolks get polearms when they start out as Berserkers and Elves get short blades, as do Halflings, too. Kobolds still start out with maces. We'll see how it works out from here. Enjoy the new, slightly more convenient Berserkers, everybody.
Some feedback on the actual change: Well, playing some MfBes today I noticed that getting these 4.x levels to kickstart polearms isn't a particularly game changing thing. It might be a buff, as some people said, but it's extremely subtle, since the XP needed to get to skill level 4 in polearms as a Merfolk (especially with Axes and Polearms crosstraining) is hilariously small. So, as mentioned above:
MarvinPA wrote: I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to starting Mf with a spear and the other short-bladey races with short swords, though, since having those races just drop their axe on D:2 and swap weapon types doesn't really add much.
I stand by this point, which is all I should have just said, anyway.