Troll Leather Armor drops

[XuaXua]

I am curious; we have troll leather armor which is created from the troll skin that drops from a standard troll (or Snorg or Purgy ), and this can be enchanted to create a basic troll leather armor, which regenerates.

Dragon skins can be enchanted a myriad of ways to create dragon armor.

Why aren't there similar options for rock troll, iron troll, or deep troll skins to drop for enchantment?

[tripwire]

Perhaps this has been suggested before, but what do people think about having Snorg or Purgy's hides differentiated in some way compared to regular trolls (beyond the name in the inscription)? Even outside of trolls, making clothing out of the hides of slain foes is awesome and it would be interesting if that mechanic was expanded a bit further.

[Grimm]

When you make a handbag out of Purgy there should be an exclusive logo on it, tripling the gold value of the item.

[Un67]

Make them enchantable into randart designer troll leather armors? Might be a bit spoilerish, but it could be put into their descriptions or something.

[XuaXua]

Ditto for Xtahua the dragon.

[pratamawirya]

+2 Snorg Troll Leather Armour {+Rage}

It's a fixedart, so it's immune to corrosion. On the other hand, you can't enchant it as much as any normal troll leather armour

[jejorda2]

With the built-in chance of not getting a corpse or a hide from the corpse, the Snorg artefact wouldn't be any more common than Gastronok's hat of pondering. (I think that's a good thing.)

I'd like to see deep troll or rock troll armour, too. Just make it like a splint mail with regeneration so regen is commonly around on something heavier than troll leather. I wouldn't add unbreathing or resistances. Then rock troll leather vs. plate mail is an interesting choice, though something like a plate mail of fire resistance would beat it.

[Danei]

Personally, I think enchantable iron troll skins (which act like platemail with +regen when enchanted) are a great idea. Iron trolls are significantly rarer than regular trolls (I think), which is fine, because regen has more synergy with a durable character than with a squishy one.

Rock troll armour I don't really care about, but it should be weaker than platemail.

Deep troll armour should be similar in AC to regular troll leather, because there's no indication that deep trolls have particularly tough hides. Therefore I don't really see a need for it. Not every troll needs enchantable hides, just as not every dragon does.

[galehar]

To the people supporting this idea, have a look at item stats and trolls' AC, then come back with a full proposal with all the numbers for each troll hide/armour type.

[pratamawirya]

Here's my proposal.

+2 Snorg Leather Armour {Regen, +Rage}
base AC: 4
EV penalty: -1
This is an artefact.

Troll Rock Armour {Regen}
base AC: 6
EV penalty: -2

Troll Iron Armour {Regen}
base AC: 8
EV penalty: -3

EDIT: changed names.

[Danei]

Personally, rather than "iron troll leather armour", I would prefer the name "troll iron armour" or "troll plate mail". Iron trolls are by all accounts literally plated with iron.

[Un67]

We could also use the following:

-1 Purgy Leather Armour {Regen, -2 STR, +2 DEX, +3 EV}
base AC: 4
EV penalty: -1
This is an artefact.

[Blade]

Troll Rock Armour and Troll Iron Armour are both really awkward-sounding names; I think it might be better to just call them Rock Troll Armour and Iron Troll Armour (this would also fit better with the dragon hide armours).

[Danei]

Troll Rock Armour and Troll Iron Armour are both really awkward-sounding names; I think it might be better to just call them Rock Troll Armour and Iron Troll Armour (this would also fit better with the dragon hide armours).

I agree about troll rock armour, but I disagree about troll iron armour. Whereas troll leather armour is armour made out of troll leather, which in turn is made out of the hide of a troll, troll iron armour is made out of troll iron, which comes from the hide of an iron troll.

[Un67]

^ Wouldn't it be better to keep the names consistent instead?

[Danei]

^ Wouldn't it be better to keep the names consistent instead?

Is that not what I'm suggesting? I want to keep troll leather armour consistent with troll iron armour. I agree that troll rock armour sounds a little silly, but I don't really think rock trolls should leave armour-producing hides in the first place.

[XuaXua]

It's not iron armor.

It's leather armor made from a troll. Hence Troll leather armor.
It's leather armor made from an iron troll. Hence Iron Troll leather armor.
It's leather armor made from a rock troll. Hence Rock Troll leather armor.
It's leather armor made from a deep troll. Hence Deep Troll leather armor.

[Kate]

I'm not sure there's really a need for lots of extra base types of armour for no particularly good reason. Troll leather is an interesting and unique special type of armour, adding lots of variations on it with only minor differences would just dilute it (the dragon armours are all much more differentiated than these, and if anything there's too many types of dragon armour already).

[Danei]

It's leather armor made from an iron troll. Hence Iron Troll leather armor.

How do you get leather from the hide of a troll that is literally plated with literal iron? It's not like it's a troll with really hard skin, figuratively being called an iron troll. It has actual iron. The iron is described as rusty, but maybe the enchantment takes care of that.

[XuaXua]

It's leather armor made from an iron troll. Hence Iron Troll leather armor.

How do you get leather from the hide of a troll that is literally plated with literal iron? It's not like it's a troll with really hard skin, figuratively being called an iron troll. It has actual iron. The iron is described as rusty, but maybe the enchantment takes care of that.

Rock Troll Scale Mail
Iron Troll Scale Mail
Deep Troll Leather Armor

[Danei]

It's leather armor made from an iron troll. Hence Iron Troll leather armor.

How do you get leather from the hide of a troll that is literally plated with literal iron? It's not like it's a troll with really hard skin, figuratively being called an iron troll. It has actual iron. The iron is described as rusty, but maybe the enchantment takes care of that.

Rock Troll Scale Mail
Iron Troll Scale Mail
Deep Troll Leather Armor

That is acceptable.

[dolphin]

I imagine the reason is similar to why there aren't similar options for shadow dragons, iron dragons, or quicksilver dragons.

Why not Shadow Dragon Armour, 5 AC -1EV {Stlth} or {Inv}, and give Shadow Dragons themselves an appropriately stabby stealthy ability, like perfect invisibility until radius ~2 with an accompanying powerful short range attack? (I think Draining would fit better on Bone Dragons, anyway)

Why not Iron Dragon Armour, 13 AC -4 EV {Slow}?

Why not Quicksilver Dragon Armour, 4 AC 0 EV {MR} or 6 AC -2 EV {MR, Antimagic = Less Mana or Lower Spellpower or both}

[Galefury]

"Why not?" is the wrong question to ask in game design. Instead you should be answering "Why?". How would this make gameplay more interesting? How would it make crawl more accessible? Are there any problems this would fix?

[Tiber]

"Why not?" is the wrong question to ask in game design. Instead you should be answering "Why?". How would this make gameplay more interesting? How would it make crawl more accessible? Are there any problems this would fix?

For adding items which take advantage of already existing features, introduce no problems, and are variants of already existing features (i.e. dragon armours of other types already exist), "why not?" is a valid question. Any other time I might agree with you though.

[XuaXua]

Not "Why not", but rather, "Were alternate Troll armors considered and if not, what was the reasoning?"

Sort of reflecting back to the initial question in the original post that I made in this thread.

[Narretz]

Iron Troll Armour is imo the only one that brings something new to the table, i.e. regeneration on heavy armour. It could be an interesting choice - regen at the cost of more food consumption. Since you rely on permafood in the post-endgame, this is definitely not a no-brainer. AC 8 EV -3 sounds good.
Rock troll armour is unnecessary.
For the dragons, I think with the latest addition of Pearl Dragon Armour's +RN there's a pretty good setup.

[theropod]

There was some pre-Tavern discussion of the additional dragon armours.

Quicksilver was something like AC +6, EV -0, resist slowing (RSlow was still in the game then), which seems about on par with pearl armour these days for endgame quality light armour. These days a fun brainstorm might be AC +?, EV -0, permanent scroll of vulnerability effect. (Go hex-mage.)

Shadow could be rN+++ with a meaningful drawback, but the flavorful drawbacks (healing magic doesn't work on you?) seem like things you'd find a quiet corner to circumvent.

Flavor-wise, iron has trouble being anything but a CPM clone. Ideas that I'm only half fond of would make it better than CPM armour wise, but with a drawback: AC +14, EV-6, ponderous, stasis.

[theropod]

Rock troll: give both the monster and the armour corrosion resistance?