DjCj starting potion


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Slime Squisher

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Post Sunday, 12th February 2023, 15:22

DjCj starting potion

This may have been changed recently, but Djinni Conjurers have been starting the game with a potion of magic. Seems like they should start with a potion of heal wounds instead.

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andrew

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Post Sunday, 12th February 2023, 15:48

Re: DjCj starting potion

I believe the same is true for Djinn elementalists.

Edit: this seems to have just been changed so they start with no potion at all, which is at least rational.

Slime Squisher

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Post Sunday, 12th February 2023, 23:03

Re: DjCj starting potion

I noticed a recent GIT commit that marked potions of magic as useless for Djinni, which is what got me thinking about their starting items. I suspect the removal of the starting potion of magic is a side effect of that commit, but every character is supposed to start with 1 helpful consumable, and the potion of healing seems like a perfect alternative in this case. It even restores the same amount of HP as a potion of magic restores MP.

Abyss Ambulator

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Post Wednesday, 15th February 2023, 14:40

Re: DjCj starting potion

Heal wounds are much stronger than potions of magic, though, and Djinni magic users are usually not weak on D1.

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Majang

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Post Thursday, 16th February 2023, 03:39

Re: DjCj starting potion

I agree that Djinni are usually not weak on D1, however, the starting consumable is not meant to assist the player in a usual game... it's there for the exceptional game where an extraordinarily dangerous situation presents itself before the player has found a randomly generated consumable that could help them survive that situation.

Either heal wounds or magic can be the more powerful of the two depending on the player's build and the particular situation. I'm inclined to agree that heal wounds is, on average, the more useful of the two, but that doesn't really matter, because in the average game, the player shouldn't need to have either one in their starting inventory.

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petercordia
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Post Thursday, 16th February 2023, 15:15

Re: DjCj starting potion

As a compromise, Djinni could start out with heal wounds identified, without actually having that potion. That would already be a significant advantage, without being too unfair with respect to other species.
Maɟaŋ

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andrew
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Post Thursday, 16th February 2023, 16:17

Re: DjCj starting potion

Nekoatl wrote:Either heal wounds or magic can be the more powerful of the two depending on the player's build and the particular situation.


If this is still in the context of Djinni - no, heal wounds is always more powerful, because magic is indeed absolutely useless to them. Remember, they don't have or use magic.
Maɟaŋ

Slime Squisher

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Post Thursday, 16th February 2023, 20:58

Re: DjCj starting potion

I assumed that the point about heal wounds being stronger was that it was stronger in general rather than specific to Djinni, for the obvious reason you pointed out, so I replied with that context in mind.

Starting out with heal wounds identified but not in inventory would defeat the whole purpose of the starting consumable item (to provide an option to deal with unusually harsh very early game RNG), and it would introduce a new inconsistency. On top of Djinni mages being inconsistent for lacking a starting item, they would be further inconsistent for having a not-yet-encountered item identified.
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Post Friday, 17th February 2023, 13:32

Re: DjCj starting potion

Nekoatl wrote:Starting out with heal wounds identified but not in inventory would defeat the whole purpose of the starting consumable item (to provide an option to deal with unusually harsh very early game RNG), and it would introduce a new inconsistency. On top of Djinni mages being inconsistent for lacking a starting item, they would be further inconsistent for having a not-yet-encountered item identified.


The new inconsistency wouldn't worry me too much, as the Djinni are really bundles of inconsistencies with respect to all other species. They can fly from the beginning, they have or use no mana, they can't learn spells (or forget them), they don't need any experience in spell schools, etc. All in all, they are a very strong species early in the game and should be able to avoid untimely death just based on their flight and their ability to whittle all their enemies down with almost endlessly available cheap magic. Their time of danger comes later, when their available spells don't provide the solutions needed for stronger monsters. Then being able to use potion healing without actually having to identify it (I sometimes have to go down to D8 or D9 before I have my heal wounds identified) will be a big advantage. Right when they need it.
Maɟaŋ

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