Polymorph abuses

[ekolis]

Wouldn't #1 just make polymorph overpowered in a DIFFERENT way - polymorph a tough enemy and he's guaranteed to get weaker!

[galehar]

1) would make polymorph effective offensively. Why not. Although I like the current niche effectiveness it has (good against monsters with annoying or dangerous abilities, but risky). But it does suffer a lot from being very spoilery.
2) i like it a lot. Could become an implementable. We need to brainstorm for bad player forms.
3) the quick and simple fix: polymorphed allies turn hostile.

[mumra]

2) i like it a lot. Could become an implementable. We need to brainstorm for bad player forms.

There were a load of ideas for bad player forms at the end of this thread: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1931&p=22328

Kilobyte also suggested this idea on the wiki and added some ideas there: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:item:wands#wand_of_polymorph_otherdon_t_generate_it_early

[galehar]

3) the quick and simple fix: polymorphed allies turn hostile.

So instead of being abusable, Beogh becomes useless?

Huh. What? How does that make him useless?

[galehar]

By making half your army turn hostile as soon as a shining eye shaped shifter comes along, or even some random goblin with a wand. Permanent allies are going to be pretty crappy if you lose them altogether to a single cast of a single fairly common monster spell. In the case of Beogh, you probably won't even be able to kill the polymorphing monster quickly because your short-lived army is in the way.

In that case, I guess temporariness is better.

[KoboldLord]

In the particular case of Beogh, she can passively protect your orcish minions from polymorph effects. Orcish racial purity is kind of her thing, after all. Penance would also be a flavor-appropriate penalty for intentional attempts to self-mutate, since doing so is tantamount to admitting that the orcish form is not already perfect.

[TwilightPhoenix]

In the particular case of Beogh, she can passively protect your orcish minions from polymorph effects. Orcish racial purity is kind of her thing, after all. Penance would also be a flavor-appropriate penalty for intentional attempts to self-mutate, since doing so is tantamount to admitting that the orcish form is not already perfect.

Sounds flavorful, yes, but it also sounds like it'd be stepping on Zin's toes just a little bit much.

[njvack]

In the particular case of Beogh, she can passively protect your orcish minions from polymorph effects. Orcish racial purity is kind of her thing, after all. Penance would also be a flavor-appropriate penalty for intentional attempts to self-mutate, since doing so is tantamount to admitting that the orcish form is not already perfect.

Sounds flavorful, yes, but it also sounds like it'd be stepping on Zin's toes just a little bit much.

Maybe the penance thing would be too Zin-like, but protecting followers from poly sounds flavorful and unique.

[GermanJoey]

One way that polymorph actually *is* abusable is with summoners that worship TSO. Cast Summon Hydra, let TSO extend the duration, and then polymorph it into a storm dragon! Who needs 27 Summonings skill when you can get by with 13? Too bad such a combination is such a rarity...

[snow]

If polymorph was made temporary it would mean we'd no longer have to hide polymorph wands... which is a good thing in my opinion.

On that note can we get an option to destroy items? Say Trog gifts you a weapon that you don't want but you're afraid that if you drop it another enemy would pick it up and use it against you. Shouldn't there be an option to destroy items? There might be one already but I haven't found it.

[absolutego]

you can chuck it to water or lava.

there are plans to enhance evokable items with a new use that destroys the item (wiki). that could be extended to wands, if only to destroy them. i sometimes just drop draining, but i always empty polymorph other. even flame/frost can hurt you.

[snow]

I don't see why that can't be extended to all items. Just like... a destroy option in the items menu. Maybe (i)tem -> (b)reak?

[pratamawirya]

Destroying evokable items is a side-effect; we shouldn't just destroy items we don't want.

[absolutego]

it'd be optimal to destroy anything you won't use, and that's just wrong.
there's also no way to rationalize it. you could expect it of magic, evokable items (and wands are a stretch), but how do you "break" an executioner's axe?

[bobross419]

Its the same as lugging things that you won't use but are dangerous to you to a lava pit or your stash... just not so tedious.

[Galefury]

Who the hell does that enough for it to become tedious? I tend to pick up wands of polymorph to get them out of the way, and that's it. Nemelex and Ely let you destroy some dangerous stuff, and this is sometimes useful. But it doesn't need to be available for everyone.

[bobross419]

I do... better to have a wand of confusion/drain/polymorph/paralysis/etc in my stash and out of the hands of monsters then have one of them pick it up and get a lucky kill on me. Same with weapons of holy wrath if I'm playing undead. There are enough threats out there for someone at my skill level that giving the opposition even more tools to kill me is just stupid.

[Stormfox]

If you're not planning on using the wands yourself, just drain them rather than taking the time to lug them elsewhere.

[bobross419]

That is even more obnoxious....

Shift+G->l->2->enter->d->clickclickclickclick->Shift+G->whereverYouJustWere (For a group of wands)

As opposed to...

Shift+V->letter->shift+arrow, repeat a bunch of times (For each wand)

Game time isn't that big of a deal and I'm sure that I can unload 10 wands back at my stash faster than I can discharge 10 wands in real time. If players can invalidate a wand's existence by discharging it then why not just include a mechanic to destroy it? It reduces tedium without really affecting any real consequences.

[Galefury]

This was never a problem for me, and you are the first person I heard strongly complain about this. Reasonable assumption: you're doing it wrong. Just drop the wands in the nearest corner (not corridor!) and see if this gets you in any trouble. Most likely it wont. I probably wouldn't risk that with polymorph and paralysis, but for other wands it shouldn't be a problem at all.

Of course you could also use the wands. Most are quite good, especially for chars without good ranged attack options. That Orc Warrior is going to be a lot less dangerous when he's confused. Or dead, from that wand of draining you were just going to let go to waste. This seems like a far better way to reduce risk of death than lugging everything to your stash, but maybe that's just me.

[Grimm]

Shift+V->letter->shift+arrow, repeat a bunch of times

` repeats last keystroke. Useful for emptying wands.