Djinni vs MP recovery


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Slime Squisher

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Post Thursday, 6th January 2022, 06:11

Djinni vs MP recovery

For Djinni, spending MP translates to spending HP. It would follow, then, that the reverse... recovering MP translating to recovering HP... should also be true. This isn't just a consistency issue, but also a balance one. TSO's "Gain power from killing" and Jiyva's conversion of consumed items to HP & MP are tuned to provide a certain amount of resources, but if Djinni are disregarding the MP recovery portion of these features, then they are not receiving the amount of benefit these abilities were designed to provide. I don't think there should be any concern about being able to use potions of magic as substitute healing potions, either, as characters with spirit shield can already do so, and this has never been a problem. RegenMP amulets would only be half as effective as RegenHP amulets, but IMO that's more an issue with the tuning of RegenMP amulets than with Djinni's mechanics, and in any case, it's less of a consistency issue than Djinni getting no benefit from MP recovery at all.
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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Thursday, 6th January 2022, 08:07

Re: Djinni vs MP recovery

You are missing the point of Dj as a species: For them, MP doesn't exist, they spend HP instead of MP, and therefore no game mechanic that involves MP is relevant for them. That is how they are designed and defined. Your suggestion would certainly make playing a Dj easier, but it would completely overturn this design concept, so it is not going to happen. And really, playing a Dj doesn't have to become any easier.
Maɟaŋ

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Post Thursday, 6th January 2022, 10:19

Re: Djinni vs MP recovery

Majang wrote:For them, MP doesn't exist, they spend HP instead of MP, and therefore no game mechanic that involves MP is relevant for them.


This is self-evidently false. They do interact with mechanics that involve MP, including but not limited to spellcasting, invocations, Portal Projectile, and gloves of infusion. They don't interact with mechanics that restore MP, but this is inconsistent with the fact that they do interact with mechanics that consume MP. They also don't interact with mechanics that drain a percentage of MP (guardian spirit/Mad Mage's Maulers) or aggressively move large chunks of MP, because the intended behavior of these mechanics would be severely warped if they were applied to Djinni's HP pool.

However... in light of that last category, there's enough other inconsistency here that enabling MP recovery items wouldn't really fix the issue, and probably shouldn't be bothered with.

I still think TSO and Jiyva should be special-cased to increase the provided HP by the amount of the MP they would provide other species, however, for the aforementioned balance reason... and to not claim to restore the player's magic power, as a matter of common sense....

Jiyva: "Your health and magic regeneration is accelerated."
Djinni: ... Is that so...?
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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Thursday, 6th January 2022, 12:40

Re: Djinni vs MP recovery

Nekoatl wrote:
Majang wrote:For them, MP doesn't exist, they spend HP instead of MP, and therefore no game mechanic that involves MP is relevant for them.


This is self-evidently false. They do interact with mechanics that involve MP, including but not limited to spellcasting, invocations, Portal Projectile, and gloves of infusion. They don't interact with mechanics that restore MP, but this is inconsistent with the fact that they do interact with mechanics that consume MP.


Please read carefully what I wrote: "They spend HP instead of MP". All that you have to add to this describes exactly that. How is it then self-evidently false? Face it, what you are asking for is a complete redesign of the Dj-species according to different principles, and again, this is not going to happen, except in a game that you develop yourself. I strongly suggest you do that.
Maɟaŋ

Slime Squisher

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Post Thursday, 6th January 2022, 20:35

Re: Djinni vs MP recovery

Because your statement is self-contradictory. "... no game mechanic that involves MP is relevant for them" contradicts "they spend HP instead of MP", because that implies they do use mechanics that use MP.

Please read carefully what I wrote: "However... in light of that last category, there's enough other inconsistency here that enabling MP recovery items wouldn't really fix the issue, and probably shouldn't be bothered with." I don't think I'm asking for what you think I'm asking for. I'm just suggesting that the behavior of 2 gods, who grant HP and MP, should instead grant only HP to Djinni, but in an amount equal to the combined amount of HP and MP they give other species, for balance reasons... and lore-wise, this should be no difficult task for literal gods. How can that possibly amount to a complete redesign of the species according to different principles? It can't, of course.

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andrew

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Post Friday, 7th January 2022, 00:52

Re: Djinni vs MP recovery

The explicit design of Djinn is that things which have an MP cost instead cost HP* and every other thing that interacts with MP instead has no interaction with MP, because they don't have MP. Not restoring HP from god abilities, amulets of mp regen, etc. is completely intended, as is not losing HP to MP draining effects like ghost moths. There's no overarching balance concern with TSO and Jiyva that requires special casing to override this; gods can already be better or worse for some species and character types than others (including wrt health restoration effects, which are better on species with high defenses and poor hp than on species with the reverse).

*Mad Mage's Maulers was added after Dj and unfortunately has to be special cased so that the player doesn't instantly die from using it.

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Post Wednesday, 26th January 2022, 18:51

Re: Djinni vs MP recovery

There are amulets now that generate +regen AND +regenMP. Thats the only reason why I'd want to see this change happen. Also, I want an amulet that always regenerates max HP every turn
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