Converting the Delver background in a new at-start option


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Lair Larrikin

Posts: 29

Joined: Thursday, 18th August 2011, 23:25

Post Thursday, 31st December 2020, 17:16

Converting the Delver background in a new at-start option

As others wrote, the problem with the Delver background is not that it's lethal or luck-based (that's part of its fun, and even if you splat many Delvers, it's just a matter of minutes to launch another). The real problem is that when you manage to get back to D:1, the remaining game just isn't very interesting -- you end up with a sort of Brigand and a few motley books/weapons/evokables picked up in the journey upwards.

I propose to turn the Delver into an option at the start of the standard Dungeon Crawl -- you can pick your background as usually and then start the game normally or, optionally, at D:5 with the "benefit package". It could also be interesting to give the player the option to specify the precise starting dungeon level, perhaps tuning the benefit package accordingly. This way, one could try to start at D:7, D:9 or even at the bottom of the dungeon!

IMO it would definitely a more interesting experiment than the current Delver background, which -- instead of rewarding the few surviving characters -- saddles the player with a mediocre game afterwards.

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andrew, bt, nago, petercordia
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Tomb Titivator

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Joined: Monday, 31st January 2011, 23:19

Post Saturday, 2nd January 2021, 00:32

Re: Converting the Delver background in a new at-start optio

One simple option would be to start the player at the temple, without additional items. Possibly with a piety boost upon joining a god instead? That's a lot more interesting than the current delver.

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 29

Joined: Thursday, 18th August 2011, 23:25

Post Saturday, 2nd January 2021, 00:39

Re: Converting the Delver background in a new at-start optio

snow wrote:One simple option would be to start the player at the temple, without additional items. Possibly with a piety boost upon joining a god instead? That's a lot more interesting than the current delver.


IMO that would be way too strong, even without the piety boost. I mean, delving for the Temple is already a favored tactic (that gets many characters splatted, but anyway). I think looking around (for stairs or the Temple) should remain a characteristic of this game mode/option.

Crypt Cleanser

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Joined: Saturday, 12th December 2015, 23:54

Post Saturday, 2nd January 2021, 04:02

Re: Converting the Delver background in a new at-start optio

Starting at temple without delver items is significantly worse than starting with delver items unless the piety boost is substantial (which is monk's gimmick, basically).

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 29

Joined: Thursday, 18th August 2011, 23:25

Post Saturday, 2nd January 2021, 12:27

Re: Converting the Delver background in a new at-start optio

Personally, I'd prefer: random start, delver items YES, player choosing level (starting from 5). The delver package can be multi-tier and change with level or not (to make for an explicit challenge)

Shoals Surfer

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Joined: Friday, 13th December 2019, 01:33

Post Saturday, 2nd January 2021, 23:17

Re: Converting the Delver background in a new at-start optio

At that point, no need to start from 5; one could play a "mini-Delver" who starts from D:2 with one extra consumable or something.

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 29

Joined: Thursday, 18th August 2011, 23:25

Post Wednesday, 6th January 2021, 12:17

Re: Converting the Delver background in a new at-start optio

Yes, but at this point the option could be more fuss than it's worth. I think to retain its flavour it should start at 5 minimum -- otherwise you can just start normally and go down the first stairs... which I always do, and then do again, and always gets me killed :D

Shoals Surfer

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Joined: Friday, 13th December 2019, 01:33

Post Wednesday, 6th January 2021, 16:06

Re: Converting the Delver background in a new at-start optio

Well you could choose to start from 5. You could choose to start from 15. I just see nothing gained by special-casing it to veto levels 2--4.

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 29

Joined: Thursday, 18th August 2011, 23:25

Post Wednesday, 6th January 2021, 18:00

Re: Converting the Delver background in a new at-start optio

I agree -- in fact, it may even be more fuss to explain why the first few levels are off-limits to delvers... but I won't give substantial bonuses, if any, until the 5th level or so. It needs to remain a challenge.

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andrew

Shoals Surfer

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Joined: Friday, 13th December 2019, 01:33

Post Wednesday, 6th January 2021, 18:28

Re: Converting the Delver background in a new at-start optio

Oh, obviously bonuses should be scaled to level. I suspect there should still be some bonus for D:2, but it could be a small one. (Say, one or two identified bad consumables; still mildly useful in that they made emergency blind-reading/quaffing safer, but not too exciting.)

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 29

Joined: Thursday, 18th August 2011, 23:25

Post Thursday, 7th January 2021, 13:19

Re: Converting the Delver background in a new at-start optio

andrew wrote:Oh, obviously bonuses should be scaled to level. I suspect there should still be some bonus for D:2, but it could be a small one. (Say, one or two identified bad consumables; still mildly useful in that they made emergency blind-reading/quaffing safer, but not too exciting.)

Heh, I like this! Wanna start at lv2? Here's a potion of degeneration for you :D

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